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Apple M5 chip

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Re: Apple M5 chip

#341

Post by nasseri »

jayd16 wrote: post #336
ironman1478 wrote: post #325

It's surprising to me macs aren't a more popular target for games. They're extremely capable machines and they're console-like in that there isn't very much variation in hardware, as opposed to traditional PC gaming. I would think that it's easier to develop a game for a MacBook than a Windows machine where you never know what hardware setup the user will have.

Mac dev sucks. You're forced to use macos and xcode (for the final build anyway). You're not able to virtualize the build machines. Apple is actively hostile to how you would build for Linux or PC or console.

This is simply not the case. Every major game framework/engine targets Mac natively.

If you are building your engine/game from scratch, you absolutely do not need to use Xcode

Re: Apple M5 chip

#342

Post by spogbiper »

ironman1478 wrote: post #325

It's surprising to me macs aren't a more popular target for games. They're extremely capable machines and they're console-like in that there isn't very much variation in hardware, as opposed to traditional PC gaming. I would think that it's easier to develop a game for a MacBook than a Windows machine where you never know what hardware setup the user will have.

you have to release major titles for windows and console, because there are tons of customers using them.

so a mac port, even if simple, is additional cost. there you have the classic chicken and egg problem. the cost doesn't seem to be justified by the number of potential sales, so major studios ignore the platform. and as long as they do, gamers ignore the platform

i've seen it suggested that Apple could solve this standoff by funding the ports, maybe they have done this a few times. but Apple doesn't seem to care much about it

Re: Apple M5 chip

#343

Post by jayd16 »

nasseri wrote: post #341
jayd16 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac dev sucks. You're forced to use macos and xcode (for the final build anyway). You're not able to virtualize the build machines. Apple is actively hostile to how you would build for Linux or PC or console.

This is simply not the case. Every major game framework/engine targets Mac natively. If you are building your engine/game from scratch, you absolutely do not need to use Xcode

Why don't you look through the Unreal and Unity docs and see if you can make a build without a Mac and xcode.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#344

Post by coldtea »

jayd16 wrote: post #336
ironman1478 wrote: post #325

It's surprising to me macs aren't a more popular target for games. They're extremely capable machines and they're console-like in that there isn't very much variation in hardware, as opposed to traditional PC gaming. I would think that it's easier to develop a game for a MacBook than a Windows machine where you never know what hardware setup the user will have.

Mac dev sucks. You're forced to use macos and xcode (for the final build anyway). You're not able to virtualize the build machines. Apple is actively hostile to how you would build for Linux or PC or console.

>Mac dev sucks. You're forced to use macos and xcode (for the final build anyway)

Having to use xcode "for the final build" is irrelevant to the game development experience.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#345

Post by hangonhn »

sosodev wrote: post #331
ironman1478 wrote: post #325

It's surprising to me macs aren't a more popular target for games. They're extremely capable machines and they're console-like in that there isn't very much variation in hardware, as opposed to traditional PC gaming. I would think that it's easier to develop a game for a MacBook than a Windows machine where you never know what hardware setup the user will have.

It's easier to develop a game for a mac in some ways but you reach a tiny fraction of gamers that way.

I wonder how that might look once you factor in Apple TV devices. They're pretty weak devices now but future ones can come with M-class CPUs. That's a huge source of potential revenue for Apple.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#346

Post by jayd16 »

coldtea wrote: post #344
jayd16 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac dev sucks. You're forced to use macos and xcode (for the final build anyway). You're not able to virtualize the build machines. Apple is actively hostile to how you would build for Linux or PC or console.

> Mac dev sucks. You're forced to use macos and xcode (for the final build anyway) Having to use xcode "for the final build" is irrelevant to the game development experience.

If you're an indie with just PC hardware it sure as hell matters.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#347

Post by knowitnone3 »

Insanity wrote: post #180
mumber_typhoon wrote: post #44

The M5 MacBook Pro still gets the Broadcom WiFi chip but the M5 iPad Pros get the N1 and C1X (Sweet). All in all, apple is doing some incredible things with hardware. Software teams at apple really need to get their act together. The M1 itself is so powerful that nobody really needs to upgrade that for most things most people do on their computers. Tahoe however makes my M1 Air feel sluggish doing the exact same task…

Yeah I love my M1 iPad Pro. But the "liquid glass" update made it feel slower. Really only the 'unlock' feels slower, once I'm using it it's fine. But it's slightly annoying and does make me want to update this year to the m5. But it's a glorified Kindle and YouTube box, so I'm hesitating a little bit.

"make me want to update this year to the m5." Then Apple software devs did what they were told

Re: Apple M5 chip

#348

Post by Noaidi »

jeffbee wrote: post #254
Noaidi wrote: post #51

I am wondering if Apple's focus is off lately with this drive for AI. So far all they are showing in that presentation is that I can have "the ability to transform 2D photos into spatial scenes in the Photos app, or generating a Persona — operate with greater speed and efficiency." And by making Apple AI (which is something I do not use for many reasons, but mainly because of Climate Change) their focus, I am afraid…

I'm interested in reading about your low-carbon lifestyle that is so efficient you got to the point of giving up machine inference.

I live in a van full time. I have a 200w solar panel and a 1500w output solar battery that powers everything I use, mostly for cooking, sometimes heat. I also poop in the woods a lot. :) I do not use the internet much really. Driving is my biggest carbon footprint but I really do not put much more mileage than the average suburban person. Anyway, I try my best. I am permanently disabled so that makes a lot of it easier. Being poor dramatically lowers ones carbon footprint.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#349

Post by [deleted] »

lazypenguin wrote: post #340
ironman1478 wrote: post #325

It's surprising to me macs aren't a more popular target for games. They're extremely capable machines and they're console-like in that there isn't very much variation in hardware, as opposed to traditional PC gaming. I would think that it's easier to develop a game for a MacBook than a Windows machine where you never know what hardware setup the user will have.

As far as I’ve seen, Apple is to blame here as they usually make it harder to target their platform and don’t really try to cooperate with the rest of the industry. As a game developer, I have to literally purchase Apple hardware to test rather than being able to conveniently download a VM

[deleted]

Re: Apple M5 chip

#350

Post by matthew-wegner »

jayd16 wrote: post #336
ironman1478 wrote: post #325

It's surprising to me macs aren't a more popular target for games. They're extremely capable machines and they're console-like in that there isn't very much variation in hardware, as opposed to traditional PC gaming. I would think that it's easier to develop a game for a MacBook than a Windows machine where you never know what hardware setup the user will have.

Mac dev sucks. You're forced to use macos and xcode (for the final build anyway). You're not able to virtualize the build machines. Apple is actively hostile to how you would build for Linux or PC or console.

> You're not able to virtualize the build machines.

Sure you can. And officially, too. Apple still ships a bunch of virtualization drivers in macOS itself. Have a look:

/System/Library/Extensions/IONetworkingFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/AppleVmxnet3Ethernet.kext

Whether or not you're using ESXi, or want to, is an entirely different question. But "you're not able to" is simply incorrect. I virtualize several build agents and have for years with no issues.

macOS 26 is the last major version to support Intel, so once macOS 28 is latest this will probably become impossible (macOS 26 should be able to use Xcode 27, but maybe the platform removal will change this previous year's OS support from continuing).

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