Live data from Hacker News

German government comes out against Chat Control

xcancel.com

341–350 of 578 posts

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#341

This is strange, because not long ago it was Germany (!!) that pushed heavily for mass-sniffing of people. I don't trust this. People should watch very, very carefully what Germany is actually doing next. I would not be surprised if the mass-sniffing comes in a few months when nobody is looking.

It's almost as if they're different people with varying agendas.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#342
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People's homes get raided and their belongings get taken away for daring to insult the ruling class or for making fun of them.

[flagged]

They are true though? Someone just had to shell out 16k because he posted that a politician's head was experiencing a drought [1]

[1]: https://www.cicero.de/innenpolitik/meinungsfreiheit-in-gefah...

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, CBS News dedicated an entire episode on these “propaganda stories”… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/policing-speech-online-germ... Germany’s constitution (the Basic Law) does protect freedom of opinion and expression, but it explicitly allows restrictions via “general laws” to protect personal honor, youth, and human dignity. Recent enforcement shows how this plays out…

The OP claimed that people's homes got raided for "daring to insult the ruling class", your source claims that people's homes got raided for posting extremist racist speech online. Unless you believe in some ridiculous conspiracy where ZE JEWS CONTROL ZE BANKS, this has absolutely no relation to your ability to insult the ruling class: Black people and Muslims are not "the ruling class". And if you do believe in such…

Your comment has been debunked countless times. This man's home was not raided for his antisemitism (which is really damn bad!) but for calling a guy an idiot [1]. I suggest you stop spreading lies.

[1]: https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/nach-schwachkopf-post-p...

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#344
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear energy is very expensive and does not necessarily provide energy security. You just have to check on the energy usage in France during the summer, when the nuclear power plants had to be shut down repeatedly now. Pushing nuclear power would neither provide reliable nor cheap energy. The route forward is solar, hydro, wind and batteries.

Nuclear, while not cheap, is clean . Coal and Gas account for 40% of Germany's energy production. All this endless talk about nuclear and whatnot, but other EU country's have been net neutral for CO2 emissions for a while now. A goal that Germany will never reach.

Nuclear is not clean. It causes toxic nuclear waste that will still be radioactive when our civilization ends, radiating the humans of the future. CO2 emissions are also still caused by it, and would grow when mining for nuclear material got harder by continued usage.

> other EU country's have been net neutral for CO2 emissions for a while now.

No EU country has achieved that, to my knowledge. It would be very surprising giving the EU energy mix and the petrol based traffic sector. Sources please.

> Coal and Gas account for 40% of Germany's energy production

Which means 60% is renewable, and that part is actually growing.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, CBS News dedicated an entire episode on these “propaganda stories”… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/policing-speech-online-germ... Germany’s constitution (the Basic Law) does protect freedom of opinion and expression, but it explicitly allows restrictions via “general laws” to protect personal honor, youth, and human dignity. Recent enforcement shows how this plays out…

Propaganda is painting this as something different than it is. Here we consider speech for what it is: something you can express freely, within the limits of civil society. If you pass those limits, then you incur in problems. Germany let someone speak freely a tad too much in the twenties and thirties, and they don't want to make that mistake again. I understand the point of "absolute free speech", and I would subsc…

> Yet we don't have too many runaway billionaires that are more powerful than governments, and we are still ALL a bit better off because of that. It's boring, but it works.

A literal millionare is chancellor.

> reedom for us is free healthcare,

Last I looked I paid 10k a year for government mandated healthcare. Where can I apply for the free one?

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#346

The EU tries something like this every few years. If you don't want this to happen, you have to win every time, while they only have to win once. It's an unsustainable situation.

I have no idea how we came to a situation where something that was designed as a trade union can now repeatedly try to restrict my freedoms.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#347
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not living under socialism, but under capitalism, don't try to paint it another way.

No, the defined economic model in Germany is called "Social market economy", not capitalism. It is one of the systems furthest removed from capitalism that is not yet Socialism (or similar systems). It's a regulated market economic model and it is designed to sit exactly in the middle between laissez faire capitalism and socialism. You can read this up if you like.

Yes and North Korea is "Democratic People's Republic of Korea". Names don't reflect reality.

> It's a regulated market economic model

So is the USA.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AfD is classified as extreme-right not only in the eyes of the public, but also by German intelligence. Therefore I'd personally expect them to support potential tools that authoritarian governments would find useful.

[flagged]

> Many German political parties have extremist elements in them.

No, they don't. Extreme in this context is defined as anti-democratic, those who want to dismantle the system at its foundation and destroy democracy, usually while removing certain groups. That's not something other parties aim for. Sure, they want to change the system, but only to improve the democratic.

> but not okay calling out the far left

There are not many real far left parties in Germany, and usually they are very small, irrelevant and called far left. Most of them are also not against democracy, they are fine with the general system, but argue about details or the economic system. The biggest far left party is "Die Linke", and they are radical left, not extreme left. Maybe they do have some extreme voices, but they are irrelevant.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#349
Online control is like a squatter waiting for years in the bushes on your yard and it only takes one time that you forget to lock your door and he sneaks in and claims he lives in your home, and uses all possible legal loopholes to prevent any imminent relocation.

A pedigree of chatcontrols has already been turned down several times in the past but there's nothing stopping it from being raised from the dead a couple of years later over and over until it finally passes. And then it's very much impossible to unpass.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#350
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not living under socialism, but under capitalism, don't try to paint it another way.

No, the defined economic model in Germany is called "Social market economy", not capitalism. It is one of the systems furthest removed from capitalism that is not yet Socialism (or similar systems). It's a regulated market economic model and it is designed to sit exactly in the middle between laissez faire capitalism and socialism. You can read this up if you like.

Sorry, but lol. Germany even makes you pay to be able to piss in a toilet. Even public libraries aren't free! And let's not mention the health care system, which literally has two tiers, one for the poor and one for the rich, with of course the poor-tier being barely functional, and still expensive as fuck. "Social market economy" my ass. Germany is a country led by incompetent extremely paternalistic leaders, the major part of which come from the capitalist class, the rest of which are their Akademiker servants. The only people getting any kind of social benefits are the retired boomers and if you were to do the accounting, even they got massively shafted by the capitalists, because those boomers would be 3x richer if their lifetime savings were properly invested.
Post reply on HN