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Linux phones are more important now than ever

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Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#341

Post by mrweasel »

taneliv wrote: post #232
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My government (Denmark) refusing to let me use their digital identity app because I don't want to accept Google's or Apple's TOS, and Google helping them enforce that via remote attestation services. Luckily there are alternatives in the form of code displays and NFC chips. However, next year I won't be able to watch porn unless I verify my age using a smartphone, no alternatives are planned. Or rather, I have the "f…

LOL, what? My (teenage) kids use my phone all the time, especially in the car, when I'm driving, but also at home. It's not like I have porn or banking apps on it, but what is the age verification going to help there? If the kids would install an app or used browser to see naked people, then my face would be available to these services, right? Better mine than the kids', I suppose! (We're not in Denmark, but I wonder…

The Danish MitID identity "service" is actually pretty clever, except for the app used to approve actions or requests on your behalf. It's designed in a way that ensure that it can verify your age, but reveal nothing else about you. It isn't going to be used for "Porn ID" though. Instead it will provide your age information, basically 15+ or 18+ (I think those are the options), to an identity wallet, which in term will validate your age to the porn sites. Unlike the UK version there's no reason to have your face scanned, because the Danish government already knows your age and can provide that information via a trusted channel, MitID.

That's probably the issue the other post aludes to. The identity wallet will only be available via Google Play or the Apple App Store (as far as we know). So without a phone and a Google or Apple account, you're won't be able to provide your age information to e.g. PornHub.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#342

Post by avsteele »

The authors largest bullet point is on author identification. What are the arguments against this and do people really feel they outweigh the benefits?

My view: I would think given how many code supply chain attacks we've see recently this would be be regarded as (at worst) a necessary evil. How much software used by large numbers of people does the open source community think will be done by anons?

Sidenote: The author implies SyncThing development was stopped due to author ID but the post linked does not say this and gives a completely different reason (forced updates)

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#343

Post by anthk »

7e wrote: post #89

Where are the open source planes, trains, and automobiles? Medical equipment? Nuclear reactors? Open source cannot afford the quantity control/verification need for these domains. It’s the same for phones. At best you’re going to get an insecure mess.

Open source literally drivers ADA compilers, toolkits, DICAM readers and whatnot.

On security, your lovely propietary NT based kernels had so many CVE's and attacks that you could fill gigabytes of text with these.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#344

Post by ptx »

internet2000 wrote: post #107
joshdavham wrote: post #101

Pardon my potentially naive question, but would Samsung ever develop their own OS? I imagine they're not necessarily happy about some of the latest changes to android.

Bada and Tizen. They've been trying for 15 years. Tizen in particular is as Linux as it gets. Long story short: it's not something the market wants.

If I recall correctly, Bada was already more locked down from the start, with app distribution only permitted with Samsung's approval. Otherwise I would have been interested in trying a Bada phone.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#345

Post by rickdeckard »

frankzander wrote: post #271
rickdeckard wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less conspiratorial answer: Bootloader unlock removal: It's actually not happening all of a sudden. The dam-breaking moment is more that Samsung, the number #1 Android vendor, decided to stop supporting it. The vendors stop maintaining bootloader-unlocking methods because the cost/benefit profile to develop/maintain/support that feature and its consequences is simply not sufficient, all while several of the biggest c…

Very much thanks for this text. This makes much sense. I don't think regulation would help ... only ppl who show their raised middle finger to this vendors. I mean this scenario is the scenario ppl thought of when TPM came up ... a fcking closed up device and you are in the hands of the vendors.

People showing their middle finger won't be enough, because the vendors are torn between two groups of interests here:

1. Building a HW/SW product which works within controlled boundaries to provide warranty, support, repairs, future maintenance, Google-compliance, regulatory compliance,...

2. A subset of Customers wanting the HW to be separable from the SW, for product to be open in a way that they can use it differently than intended (potentially creating "Group#3", a HW/SW product with a different SW).

To create a product for Group#2, alot of the aspects of Group#1 still apply, but in a more-complicated, more-expensive manner. If there is a viable business-case for Group#2, it will be a separate more-expensive product with lower volume.

But in reality, the only way a vendor could meaningfully resolve the needs of Group#2 is if ALL his devices support this feature (including customers who don't want a unlockable "open" device now), allowing everyone to become member of Group#2 without having to buy a new separate product.

For this, the economic incentive doesn't exist.

Explicit example: The Fairphone is a great device, but it will never sell more volume than a Samsung Flagship, because it's a device satisfying the conscious needs of a niche of customers, without the chance of reaching comparable volume to compete in all other areas.

That's why the only chance I see is to create a regulatory incentive by making the requirements of Group#2 a part of Group#1, to have the "unconscious needs" of the majority also satisfied.

Because only THEN the mainstream-customer can be converted to *users* of this potential "Group#3" product, and market-forces have a chance to flow freely again, if you see what I mean...

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#346

Post by poetaster »

I'm a very happy Sailfish OS user, since 2016, before that Meego, Maemo (Nokia N900, N9). I do have an android phone for one App (Deutsche Post) which I use only when I need to ship stuff. Running on a Gigaset (made in Germany, 4KmA battery) I generally get two days of usage, 1 day if I'm stuck on Mastodon.

From being able to do SDL2 stuff (Godot 3.5 for instance) with a wayland compositor to just not having f'ked UI, I'm happy. The challenge of getting more apps is certainly a challenge. But that's good, gives me lots to do.

Linux on Mobile has already long been here to stay.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#347

Post by poetaster »

3036e4 wrote: post #308

My next phone will almost certainly be two phones. One cheap and super standard Android phone to just run banking apps and similar that insists on Google Play etc. Locked down and boring, turned off most of the time. Then a second phone for everything else (terminal with sshd, emacs, emulators, media players ... the stuff that allows a phone to be the general purpose computer it should be). Looks increasingly unlikel…

I do have an Android for one app. But daily drive linux and have since the Nokia N9/N900.

I must admit, I don't do banking on the phone and keep all sensitive data off my mobiles.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#348

Post by poetaster »

VariousPrograms wrote: post #116

As someone willing to put up with all manner of nonsense (overpriced/underpowered hardware, clunky UI, endless troubleshooting), battery life on mobile Linux devices alone prevents me from using them in the real world. Is there a single Linux phone/tablet that can last an 8 hour day of actual use? Librem/Pinephone/Juno can't. My uConsole can't. Different category, but my MNT mini laptop lasts like 4 hours and can't b…

With my, atypical maybe?, use, I get up to 2 days on a 4KmA battery (Gigaset GS5, SailfishOs). Sometimes I'm down to 1 day if I do social media scrolling.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#349

Post by poetaster »

ttkari wrote: post #265
maheart wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is there a single Linux phone/tablet that can last an 8 hour day of actual use? What's "actual use"? Furi FLX1 has the best battery life I've seen on a Linux phone. Idling, it last 3+ days. I'm sure it could survive 1 whole day of "actual use". I also think almost any (official) SailfishOS device would last a day of actual use.

I have a Sony Xperia 10 III with SailfishOS and it easily does 48 hours on a charge when I'm not doing a lot of screen time. Also on days when I use it for tracking / navigation on 6-8 hour bicycle rides it easily lasts for the entire day and then some. I think this is not bad for a device that has been in daily use for almost three years and still has the original battery. I'm running a couple of messenger clients a…

I also have this setup and SFos on Gigaset GS5. Similar battery performance. I did a roadtrip last week with navigation (starting with about 90% battery) and after 5&1/2 hours navigation was down to 65% or therabouts. Works for me.

And, yes, I often turn off wifi. I never go over my Data limits and 4G/5G is much more efficient for some reason.

Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever

#350

Post by nc30 »

3036e4 wrote: post #308

My next phone will almost certainly be two phones. One cheap and super standard Android phone to just run banking apps and similar that insists on Google Play etc. Locked down and boring, turned off most of the time. Then a second phone for everything else (terminal with sshd, emacs, emulators, media players ... the stuff that allows a phone to be the general purpose computer it should be). Looks increasingly unlikel…

I am starting to do that but I still find that will be annoying to keep up. The dumb device will need to be kept up-to-date because that's important for e.g banking apps so that automatically excludes "old" devices (usually 3+ years old) because most stop getting updates that fast. Even LineageOS isn't an option because it does not pass Google's integrity checks so I am afraid I will need to buy a new dumb phone every couple of years..
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