Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I feel Apple has lost its alignment with me and other long-time customers

morrick.me

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 606 posts

Re: I feel Apple has lost its alignment with me and other long-time customers

#341

Post by card_zero »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #323
card_zero wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Objectively, by 2001 standards MacOS sucked and you wouldn't want to align with people who think otherwise. I see, so like "Don't think different"?

By 2001 the Classic MacOS wasn't really "different", it was largely the same as the System 7 release from 10 years ago. The NeXTSTEP on the other hand was quite different. Different from MacOS, from DOS/Windows and from proprietary UNIXes. I would argue that switching to NeXTSTEP was more aligned with the original spirit of "think different" than getting stuck in the old ways.

Like another post says, "The Mac was a philosophy". I bought a series of them but stopped around the year 2000 because they threw away the philosophy in favor of innovation. I think things were going south already around 1998. Remember Sherlock? On system 8.5 it would regularly interrupt the user (sending games from full screen to windowed) to display a dialog to say that it was indexing files. This couldn't be turned off except by disabling the Sherlock extension altogether.

That says that Sherlock's mission wasn't to help the user do user activities, but to get the user out of the way of Sherlock's activities, while keeping the user informed about the magnificence of Sherlock. This attitude became really popular with every OS that was competing to be innovative, and we're still stuck with it today. Shut up user, pay attention, look at my features!

Re: I feel Apple has lost its alignment with me and other long-time customers

#342

Post by eviks »

All such criticisms would be much more defendable if the authors' view of the past weren't so rosy with a strong liquid blur of the Job's myth.

> that are, once again, intuitive, discoverable, easy to use, and that both look and work well.

Never was this the case! All these past OSes had a lot of the same fundamental flaws along all of those dimensions, from basic search ("discoverable/easy") fails in both iOS and macOS.

Otherwise maybe it's indeed closer to

> I’m becoming more cynical with age and general tech fatigue

Re: I feel Apple has lost its alignment with me and other long-time customers

#343

Post by sillyfluke »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #274
opan wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used my past several Android phones without signing into a Google account or using gapps. I pick something with LineageOS support (usually OnePlus stuff) and get it from eBay, update to latest stock firmware (gets newer baseband and such) then flash LineageOS over it and get my apps from F-Droid.

These, “just change the firmware” comments are silly. I should get basic phone functionality from my phone out of the box with exactly ZERO effort. I can use an iPhone without an Apple account. I cannot use an Android phone without a Google account unless they changed that in the last few years.

Both Android and iphones require an account to download apps I believe. Am I mistaken here? Other than that they can be used in the same way without accounts. In fact, with Android an email account suffices and giving your phone number is "opt-in". Apple forces you to give your phone number to create an account last time I checked. Also no F-droid on iphones? But the iphone is the better "phone" experience because there is less bloat and UI nagging.

Re: I feel Apple has lost its alignment with me and other long-time customers

#345

Post by diebeforei485 »

Apple still issues software updates for many years beyond the competition. I have a 9.7" iPad Pro from 2016 (mostly a youtube and music device now) and I received a security update today. That is dedication to long time customers.

The products have matured. Comparing to last year's product makes no sense because most people don't buy new products every year

A lot of people buying the 17 are coming from the 12 or earlier, and it is a significant upgrade.

Re: I feel Apple has lost its alignment with me and other long-time customers

#346

Post by jwr »

> Unless someone comes up with a type of earbuds that have easily replaceable batteries, I’m not interested in buying something that’s bound to become e‑waste in a relatively short period of time.

Well, to be fair, my Airpods Pro show no noticeable signs of battery degradation after 3 years of use. If they get to 5 years, that will be longer than most headphones last, not because of batteries, but because of overall wear and abuse. I think the above is a knee-jerk reaction.

Re: I feel Apple has lost its alignment with me and other long-time customers

#347

Post by whywhywhywhy »

gigatexal wrote: post #335

they're just a mature company doing mature company things ... still there's a lot of really strong inertia: the MacBook line of hardware is the best it's ever been the phones continue to improve year over year incrementally sure but they're solid -- I'm very keen to see what the rumored folding iphone gets us AirPods I can't live without idk -- macOS26's spotlight just stole a lot of good things from things like Alfr…

>the MacBook line of hardware is the best it's ever been

Only after 5 years of the worst it's ever been, something triggered a complete change of course and it's easy to forget how utterly awful the butterfly era was.

A lot of the rest of Apple feels like butterfly era thinking.

Re: I feel Apple has lost its alignment with me and other long-time customers

#348

Post by TylerE »

card_zero wrote: post #341
alexey-salmin wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By 2001 the Classic MacOS wasn't really "different", it was largely the same as the System 7 release from 10 years ago. The NeXTSTEP on the other hand was quite different. Different from MacOS, from DOS/Windows and from proprietary UNIXes. I would argue that switching to NeXTSTEP was more aligned with the original spirit of "think different" than getting stuck in the old ways.

Like another post says, "The Mac was a philosophy". I bought a series of them but stopped around the year 2000 because they threw away the philosophy in favor of innovation. I think things were going south already around 1998. Remember Sherlock? On system 8.5 it would regularly interrupt the user (sending games from full screen to windowed) to display a dialog to say that it was indexing files. This couldn't be turne…

That was because MacOS classic couldn’t multitask

Re: I feel Apple has lost its alignment with me and other long-time customers

#349

Post by lotsofpulp »

blitzar wrote: post #238
Animats wrote: post #125

To some extent Apple is now a "lifestyle brand", like Rolex. Rolex was originally a rugged, waterproof watch for people who needed such a watch. Pilots, divers, mariners, and military officers wore the things. Rolex had the accuracy of a marine chronometer in a small package. The Rolex Submariner was introduced in 1953 at $150. That would be $1,820 today. But the base price for a Rolex Submariner today, the same watc…

I think the problem is deeper than that. Apple Employees are "lifestyle employees". They can't imagine why someone wouldn't just buy the $5,000 spec of a laptop if they want a modest quantity of storage or memory, and then get another one in a few months time when that one gets old. They are too rich, too comfortable and too out of touch with the common person - and in many cases what people actually use their produc…

> Apple Employees are "lifestyle employees". They can't imagine why someone wouldn't just buy the $5,000 spec of a laptop if they want a modest quantity of storage or memory, and then get another one in a few months time when that one gets old.

Holy hyperbole. I am willing to bet the laptop capabilities that 80% of the population’s needs are available in a $1,000 to $1,500 Macbook Air, and 95% of the population’s needs are available in a $2,000 to $2,500 Macbook Pro. And they will not need a new laptop for at least 5 years.

Re: I feel Apple has lost its alignment with me and other long-time customers

#350

Post by amelius »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #302
snowwrestler wrote: post #89

> it’s a company that I feel has lost its alignment with me and other long-time Apple users and customers. When OS X debuted there was a daytime radio talk show in my area called “The Computer Guys.” They capably covered all sorts of computing topics, but were clearly long-time Apple dudes. And they spent weeks complaining about what a disaster OS X was. The Dock was useless and violated Apple’s HIG. The Finder made…

>> it’s a company that I feel has lost its alignment with me and other long-time Apple users and customers. > When OS X debuted there was a daytime radio talk show in my area called “The Computer Guys.” They capably covered all sorts of computing topics, but were clearly long-time Apple dudes. And they spent weeks complaining about what a disaster OS X was. The Dock was useless and violated Apple’s HIG. The Finder ma…

> There's a theory in the comments that they want to align with "people who want the best camera array and have money to burn".

I agree with you and this theory sounds like moving goalposts.

First people claimed that the free market will always give the consumer what they want.

Then this turned out to be not true (we even have a term, enshittification), and now people come up with a more "refined" theory. Why would it be true this time?

Post reply on HN