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Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

josefprusa.com

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Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#341

Post by robomartin »

@Prusa. I want your company to survive. We have Prusa printers and our own self-made high-speed printers.

I use the Prusa's all the time. They just work. Not the fastest, but that's not a problem. When we need fast we use our own brushless servo-driven stationary table beast.

Build a good MK3/4 style 350 x 350 x 350~500 printer and I will likely buy it. Not interested in the other stuff. Don't even care about multi-material. We use 3D printers for design validation and to explore concepts. Don't need the complexity at all. Don't need crazy speed. Just a good solid printer that works reliably and I don't have to think about. This isn't a hobby, it's a tool. I want it on the network and don't need (can't have) external connectivity (ITAR).

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#342

Post by bdcravens »

dns_snek wrote: post #76
bdcravens wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they feel the need to talk about it? Because their $1000 (which was recently reduced in price even) bedslinger is outclassed by a $349 Bambu Lab A1, and they have lost their position as the printer to buy.

What are you talking about? They're talking about it because it offers an insight into significant reasons WHY they can't match Bambu Lab on price.

They couldn't match Creality on price either, but for a time, Prusa was still the printer with the best quality. As in many industries, there was dependence on the idea that non-Chinese products supposedly had better quality, so you were willing to pay the higher prices. However, in 3D printing, and in other industries, that barrier is falling.

Obviously state support can lead to "unfair" price advantages, but in the example of the A1, even at an equivalent price, the A1 still holds the advantage (larger print bed and additional functionality, for example). This isn't the single-dimensional disadvantage that Josef Prusa is making it out to be.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#343

Post by tkel »

porphyra wrote: post #266
Workaccount2 wrote: post #60

China, being a planned economy at heart, has a "VC" system that is essentially just the government deciding what needs to be developed, and then Chinese banks lending without any practical strings to those developers. Profit and loss, ROI, business plan, aren't really factored in. China wants to develop AI? You have some experience and want to start an AI business? Great! Here is a few million go make AI. This is the…

People love to point out the ghost cities and high speed trains to "nowhere". But, for every ghost city, there are hundreds of thriving actual cities full of people. Shenzhen itself was a planned special economic zone that went from an impoverished fishing village to a thriving megalopolis and the worldwide center of electronics within decades. And despite some high speed train stations being underutilized in the off…

Yes, I'm really tired of the propagandized "ghost cities" talking point. Having spent time in China, it's clear that they just put a little bit of planning into their development, where as in the US there is little to none, and the resulting infrastructure + development is far below China's.

And like you said, the capacity and capability is there, but the money gets disappeared into some DoD contractor instead. As well as there being thousands of failed projects, ghost towns, and empty neighborhoods across the US. But the propagandized talking point isn't there. Some wealthy anti-planning capitalists obviously made a successful media push about it. Much like other "enemies" of the US, nearly all reporting is loose on facts and biased negative.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#344

Post by RobotToaster »

alnwlsn wrote: post #117

Not IP related, but I built a Voron printer a while ago, which is sort of the last word in DIY printers. It's not so much a printer as a parts list and set of instructions, but something that's not lost on me is that most of the core components are Chinese parts. I don't just mean screws and bearings (though they are too), you might install a board like this [0] which is a Chinese designed board I'd describe as open-…

I think the beauty of voron is that if you lost access to Chinese parts tomorrow you could source replacements elsewhere. Some would be difficult at first, like PCBs, but most like stepper motors are commodity parts that are easily replaced

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#345

Post by martin-t »

martin-t wrote: post #176
AlexandrB wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP is just too strong. The terms are ridiculously long (especially for copyright), there are multiple workarounds for "fair use", such as DMCA, and patents on simple concepts like linked lists are not laughed out of the room. All of this stuff needs to be weakened (and shortened). Part of the reason Chinese companies are able to iterate quickly on technology like 3d printers or drones is that it's possible to simply…

It's not a binary too string / too weak. It's that _copyright_: - protects the wrong entities (corporations instead of individuals who did the real work) - IP should be collectively owned by the people who created it and selling it should be illegal, - is too long, yes - DMCA can be used to harass without actually owning the IP and there are no penalties - the fair use exception can be used to allow clear cases of pl…

Oh, yeah, 5 upvotes and 2 comments, then suddenly 7 downvotes without any replies. Totally organic.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#346

Post by RobotToaster »

Palomides wrote: post #261
captainmuon wrote: post #170

Their business model might be dead, I don't know. But the latest Prusa printers are as far as I know not really open - I can't download the schematics for free and make a clone, can I? And also a truely open schematic that I could download that way wouldn't be affected by patents, as long as I'm not selling it. Granted, commercial development with open core might be in trouble. But first, that is not a technical nor…

>schematic that I could download that way wouldn't be affected by patents, as long as I'm not selling it not true, there's no personal use exemption for patents

There effectively is a common law exemption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_exemption

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#347

Post by paradox460 »

MobiusHorizons wrote: post #286
unethical_ban wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking a snarky thought reading another comment in the chain: "DJI and Anker aren't Chinese brands, because they're good and they have brand reputation". "Chinese" in my ape brain is Harbor Freight junk, or cheap houseware from Amazon with names like "KRLFOCGY".

Honestly, even harbor freight has some pretty good tools these days. They do have disposable level crap, but even one level above that is quite serviceable.

Some of their icon tools literally beat snap-on

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#348

Post by simpaticoder »

tw04 wrote: post #218
simpaticoder wrote: post #11

The real story here is that IP ownership is capital-intensive when it shouldn't be. Open-source and community-led IP contributions are grossly under-protected because of this, and those with capital become unopposed predators. This is a special-case of the more general observation that the justice system is capital-intensive when it shouldn't be. The answer is something you very rarely hear: the US (especially) needs…

>Given the advent of computers, the internet, video conferencing, it is outrageous how much of the current system requires physical paper, physical presence in a courtroom. It is outrageous how the slowness and cost of the system itself is used by the wealthy to bully the poor. You're leaving out the part that there are a limited number of judges, and to be a good judge requires a LOT of education, a LOT of experienc…

How about making everything a jury trial? How about same-day trials? How about trials that take hours not years? How about doing things so fast events are still fresh in people's minds, and information can flow directly from the witnesses to the ears of the jury?

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#350

Post by bruckie »

mystraline wrote: post #57
razemio wrote: post #14

A genuine Question. Is open hardware even possible at some point? The advances in quality and speed are nothing short but impressive. I started 3d printing stuff in my basement one year ago (Ender V3 Plus). With the quality and speed improvements, comes technology which gets more complex every year. Companies spend millions to archive this. Why would they share it? I remember building drones in my basement (still on…

> Is open hardware even possible at some point? It already is. And its been chaotic and amazing at the same time. We already have open source: 5DoF 3d printers with slicers Fixed wing and quad/hexa/octocopters Medical drug fabrication (Four Thieves) Electrochemical synthesis lab Open source flow batteries Stops and starts of industrial tooling (open source ecology) I'm going to say something that is becoming less and…

You could get that for $75 to $150 (depending on lead time and whether you want 5052 or 6061) from SendCutSend or OshCut (both US-based), as long as you're willing to use 3/16 inch (4.7 mm) plate instead of 5 mm. They'll also bend it for you if you want.

But at a higher level you're right: availability of fabrication services in the U.S. is pretty poor, and most shops are optimized for a few larger orders, not small mix orders like yours.

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