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Fight Chat Control

fightchatcontrol.eu

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Re: Fight Chat Control

#341

Post by themafia »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #256

The end of anonymity online basically means an end to the internet era itself. We will effectively be rewinding time to the 1980s, when the only news sources were controlled by oligopolies, and dissident voices were simply not given a platform. That might be fine in a world where every country is on-board, but now that the internet exists, countries with anonymous free speech will come out ahead. Here's a darker thou…

> The end of anonymity online basically means an end to the internet era itself. We will effectively be rewinding time to the 1980s, when the only news sources were controlled by oligopolies, and dissident voices were simply not given a platform.

No, in the 1980s, dissident voices had platforms. They weren't "mass media" platforms but they definitely had radio shows, periodicals and various publishing channels to disseminate their publications and broadcasts. They were incredibly important in those days, and those sources held some amount of power, in that they could expose a story, and effectively force the rest of the media to cover a subject or event they otherwise would have ignored.

This is worse in every way as it /completely/ locks them out the modern market of ideas that is the internet and ensconces prior restraint into law in a way that violates the civil liberties of every citizen, whether they are the publisher, or the consumer.

We have lost control of the internet. Those who have control intend to turn this world back into a fiefdom with their newfound power. They are otherwise working to keep the rest of the population in fear and distracted. I'm genuinely afraid our past luck will fail to hold out. They've spent 20 years to get to this point. I don't see them giving up.

Re: Fight Chat Control

#342

Post by sampo »

x775 wrote: post #100
lucideer wrote: post #60

A little context here since this website is highly misleading: - EU Council holds more power in Europe than EU Parliament - EU Council is pushing this regulation - this website misrepresents the positions of most members of EU Parliament - it shows "Supports" despite most of them being "Unknown" Overall, while people should be encouraged to contact their MEPs, I suspect many are already very informed on this & strong…

Ultimately, both the EU Council and the European Parliament must agree on legislation for it to pass. The Parliament acts as a co-legislator with equal legislative power in this process, effectively representing the citizens while the Council represents the member states governments. Both have to agree. In the case of Chat Control, Denmark, as the current EU Council Presidency, revived the proposal (after it previous…

> The Parliament acts as a co-legislator with equal legislative power in this process

The EU Parliament doesn't have equal legislative power. EU Commission proposes legislation, and the parliament can only accept or reject. Of course informally they can discuss with the Commission and let the Commission know what they would or would not pass.

> effectively representing the citizens while the Council represents the member states governments

This is true. But you maybe forgot another body, the EU Commission.

EU Council, Council of the EU: Represent member states

EU Commission: Represents the EU

EU Parliament: Represents the citizens

I guess US doesn't have a body like the EU Commission, that is not elected and that represents the interests of the "deep state".

Re: Fight Chat Control

#343

Post by account42 »

Aeolun wrote: post #294
throwaway89201 wrote: post #126

Please also fight mandatory age verification with prison sentences. The European Parliament has already voted in favor of a law that mandates age verification for pornography with a one year prison sentence. It was included as a last minute amendment into this bill [1]. See "Amendment 186". It has been completely missed by news organizations and even interest groups. The full accepted article reads: "Disseminating po…

The standard for robust and effective age verification is extremely low, given how I’ve seen anyone do age verification. It’s also pointless if we’re talking about the internet, you are essentially outsourcing your porn production to foreign countries

The standard for robust and effective age verification is a moving target.

Foreign websites will be solved the great EU firewall that will inevitably come "to protect the rule of law" once these legislations are passed.

Re: Fight Chat Control

#344

Post by account42 »

tamimio wrote: post #248
throwaway4496 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You would be naive to think this is after porn, it’s just for public consumption and justification, the whole idea is more control and surveillance, once the infrastructure is there, the laws and resources too, it will be just some quick small amendment to expand it further for something else, that’s how always it works, one step at a time, boil the frog slowly.

Yes. And the next step will be to ensure that these censorship laws can be enforced on international websites which will be a great excuse to firewall international communications.

Re: Fight Chat Control

#345

Post by _Algernon_ »

renewiltord wrote: post #279

Man am I glad I live in America. Despite everything, it's still the land of the free and the home of the brave. The federal system here means that the majority of weird shit happens at the state level.

The country that had prosecution of political opponents during the Red Scare and patriot act is better? The US is the country that started all this privacy invading BS and is still way ahead on that front.

After all Chat Control hasn't actually passed yet.

Re: Fight Chat Control

#346

Post by Krssst »

isaacremuant wrote: post #322
Krssst wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably meant January 6th rebels being pardoned giving the example that extremists that aim at preventing democratic election results from going into effect can do as they want. Which is a much bigger problem than "stay home a bit to avoid unintentionally killing people".

[flagged]

So people should die of pandemix diseases for making sure that personal freedoms are never ever temporarily restricted, got it.

One side seems busy with taking democratic institutions down, I wouldn't be surprised if freedom is next anyway. (well freedom of opinion is already disappearing)

Re: Fight Chat Control

#347

Post by uyzstvqs »

IshKebab wrote: post #320
steve_taylor wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally support age verification for porn. However, age verification for almost anything else, e.g. Reddit, is a terrible idea.

Yeah I think you have it backwards. I don't think anyone has demonstrated any actual harms from porn, but social networks regularly fuck teenagers up. I definitely would prefer my children to watch porn than get bullied - or worse - on social media. There's also the fact that I vaguely trust Facebook or Reddit to do a credit card-based age check or whatever. No way I'm giving any of my details to porn sites. Stupid d…

> I don't think anyone has demonstrated any actual harms from porn

That's disingenuous and false. It's pretty common knowledge that pornography is not representative of real relationships, and because it's not actually emotionally satisfying, it takes regular consumers down a rabbit hole of increasingly extreme, vile and obscure content. Take a guess what that does to a developing teenager, essentially being educated by pornography. Not to say that it's not harmful to adults too, because it is.

But yes, government control, censorship and centralization of the internet is not the solution. Mandatory ID checks will not protect any kids, it will destroy the free and open internet.

Re: Fight Chat Control

#348

Post by IshKebab »

uyzstvqs wrote: post #347
IshKebab wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think you have it backwards. I don't think anyone has demonstrated any actual harms from porn, but social networks regularly fuck teenagers up. I definitely would prefer my children to watch porn than get bullied - or worse - on social media. There's also the fact that I vaguely trust Facebook or Reddit to do a credit card-based age check or whatever. No way I'm giving any of my details to porn sites. Stupid d…

> I don't think anyone has demonstrated any actual harms from porn That's disingenuous and false. It's pretty common knowledge that pornography is not representative of real relationships, and because it's not actually emotionally satisfying, it takes regular consumers down a rabbit hole of increasingly extreme, vile and obscure content. Take a guess what that does to a developing teenager, essentially being educated…

> It's pretty common knowledge that pornography is not representative of real relationships, and because it's not actually emotionally satisfying, it takes regular consumers down a rabbit hole of increasingly extreme, vile and obscure content.

That's not common knowledge or true. Most of the population watches porn. Where's the harm?

> pornography is not representative of real relationships

No shit. Next you'll be telling me that Batman isn't representative of real billionaires.

Re: Fight Chat Control

#349

Post by nickslaughter02 »

Teever wrote: post #124
echelon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're talking about corrupt politicians, why is this all happening all at once? America, Great Britain, and the EU are all creating tracking, monitoring, and censorship regulations. All at the same time. We're turning the internet into the 1984 inevitability it was predicted to become. We need a Bill of Rights against this. But the public is too lay to push for this. Bolstering or eroding privacy rights will ne…

Authoritarians will always try and pull this kind of shit. It's just what they do. The bigger question you should be asking is where's the coordinated pushback? Where are the celebrities and public figures taking a stand against this? Where are the grassroots organizations organizing protests and promoting sousveillance programs against the authoritarians who want to take away our rights and privacy? The reason why t…

> Where are the celebrities and public figures taking a stand against this?

Many of them support it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(organization)#Notable_s...

Re: Fight Chat Control

#350

Post by andrepd »

Disposal8433 wrote: post #9

I'm French and every idiot supports it, even the so-called left. There is nothing I can do except donate money every month to GrapheneOS ( https://grapheneos.org/donate ). Democracy is dead for me.

THIS IS NOT TRUE.

Both "The Left" and "Greens/EFA", the major left wing parties in the Europarl, OPPOSE Chat Control!

Unfortunately the website appeared to show the MEP's positions as being *equal to their country's government's position", which is obviously nonsense!

This has since been fixed but the damage is done....

-----

That being said, does it not raise your skepticism bells even a little bit to see every single French MEP painted in the same colour, including parties that hate each other mutually, including liberal, anti-european, and left-wing parties... Should be enough to at least make you raise your eyebrows and be suspicious that something is wrong.

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