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US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

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Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#341

Post by dylan604 »

wat10000 wrote: post #327
dylan604 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because someone has a different point of view than yours does not make them stupid. I know plenty of people that have different views of mine that are much smarter than I am, and engaging with them leads to interesting conversations. I can still think they are "wrong" at the end of these conversations, but I'd never call them stupid. Hell, the lottery is often described as a tax on poor people. Yet the vast majo…

It’s not “a different point of view” to think that tariffs get paid by the other country. It’s not “a different point of view” to loathe Obamacare and like the ACA. It’s just ignorance. When the information is easily available, it’s willful ignorance. When they won’t obtain the information and they still hold strong opinions and vote accordingly, it’s at best stupidity.

How is it not a different point of view to think that healthcare should be tied to one's employment as opposed to all people should have access to affordable healthcare? We can discuss if Obamacare achieved what it wanted to do as I believe it was not very successful, but it at its core is a different view point. Yes, people believing other countries pay the tariffs are clearly not understanding of how tariffs work. But then you went made some clearly erroneous comment that ruined everything else just to get back to stupidity. Which by your standards means you must be stupid too for continuing to put forth a clearly wrong point.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#342

Post by pstuart »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #337
cherryteastain wrote: post #32

Tariffs kinda make sense when you have a deficit in a widely available item. Big trade deficit with Bangladesh? Sure you can buy cheap textiles from Thailand or Vietnam or something. Unfortunately this approach does not work when you lack a viable domestic alternative and you're up against a monopoly. What will the US do if TSMC does not blink? Not buy TSMC made chips? Obviously that is impossible, so the logical con…

I much prefer “import taxes”. These arm-twisting games are exhausting and expensive.

These tariffs are presented as trying to bolster domestic industry but that's a smokescreen. The primary goal is to use this to replace income taxes so the rich are freed from their onerous (/s) taxation.

The bonus is that it's a tool for punishing perceived enemies and inciting interested parties to purchase favor from the regime to try and ease them back.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/28/business/taxes-trump-tariffs

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#343

Post by wat10000 »

kashunstva wrote: post #320
mathiaspoint wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We couldn't make an iPhone because apple would refuse to cooperate, not because of a technical limitation. We could make a similarly capable phone though.

> … because apple would refuse to cooperate… Apple’s putative refusal to cooperate is surely not the only barrier here. I doubt U.S. consumers would pay a premium for a U.S. iPhone whether Apple thought it wise or not. But when the U.S. president’s branded Made in America phone comes out later this year I guess we’ll see. I’m sure the release is just around the corner.

All we’ll see is how gullible certain Americans are, since that phone won’t be made in America.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#344

Post by andrekandre »

molticrystal wrote: post #109

I understand the push to build fabs in the US to avoid tariffs, as the US likely sees this as a strategic hedge for the global chip supply in case China disrupts Taiwan or Japan, or some other rare catastrophic event occurs. Whether it is correct or not, Trump seems to view the US as a larger version of Mar-a-Lago, so he'll always feel he can charge a premium for access to its consumer base and market while offering…

  > But it is supposed to be a free market that should reward efficiency and competence, not prop up companies that don't have their act together.
tbh that ideology seems long-dead by now...

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#345

Post by dylan604 »

wat10000 wrote: post #330
dylan604 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AND stupidity is you being intentionally ignorant. People have much better things to do than look up words, look for dissenting opinions one something the face on their TV tells them. There's taking the kids to _______ practice. There's TV shows to keep up with. There's an infinite feed of content to scroll through. There's plenty of other things that they would prefer to do themselves than whatever it is you would p…

If you’re too busy to find out what tariffs are, fine. I get it. But then don’t have an opinion on the matter. Don’t vote for an absolute shithead because you think these things, which you’re too busy to find out about, will be great for the country.

Having an opinion is a constitutional right. You can't tell people not to have an opinion. That is stupid. People vote for many reasons while a lot of those vote on a single issue. If the person receiving their single issue vote means there's baggage to get their one hot button item then so be it. I voted for someone not for what they represented so much as it was a vote not for the other person. The person receiving my vote definitely didn't make me all smiley and thinking panacea was on the way. In fact, my last 3 votes were this way.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#346

Post by xeromal »

dylan604 wrote: post #297
arbitrary_name wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While i take your point about playing nice, it has a lot to do with stupidity: specifically ignorance, intellectual laziness, lack of curiosity, bias, anti intellectualism, inability to think abstractly, lack of education, lack of critical thinking, ideology, and a host of other things. Almost all of which correlate in some way to 'stupidity'. I posit that your first line is wildly wrong, but your message is broadly…

Just because someone has a different point of view than yours does not make them stupid. I know plenty of people that have different views of mine that are much smarter than I am, and engaging with them leads to interesting conversations. I can still think they are "wrong" at the end of these conversations, but I'd never call them stupid. Hell, the lottery is often described as a tax on poor people. Yet the vast majo…

I appreciate you trying to "remember the human" which is one of the top rules of hackernews and every single comment replying to you isn't bothered that they call a whole swath of people stupid.

How can we heal, change, and recover from this without reaching out and understanding their POV.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#347

Post by cosmicgadget »

dylan604 wrote: post #297
arbitrary_name wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While i take your point about playing nice, it has a lot to do with stupidity: specifically ignorance, intellectual laziness, lack of curiosity, bias, anti intellectualism, inability to think abstractly, lack of education, lack of critical thinking, ideology, and a host of other things. Almost all of which correlate in some way to 'stupidity'. I posit that your first line is wildly wrong, but your message is broadly…

Just because someone has a different point of view than yours does not make them stupid. I know plenty of people that have different views of mine that are much smarter than I am, and engaging with them leads to interesting conversations. I can still think they are "wrong" at the end of these conversations, but I'd never call them stupid. Hell, the lottery is often described as a tax on poor people. Yet the vast majo…

> Just because someone has a different point of view than yours does not make them stupid.

He never suggested that. You defended these voters by saying they gladly accept the propaganda information diet, not that they have well-reasoned differences of opinion.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#348

Post by wat10000 »

dylan604 wrote: post #341
wat10000 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not “a different point of view” to think that tariffs get paid by the other country. It’s not “a different point of view” to loathe Obamacare and like the ACA. It’s just ignorance. When the information is easily available, it’s willful ignorance. When they won’t obtain the information and they still hold strong opinions and vote accordingly, it’s at best stupidity.

How is it not a different point of view to think that healthcare should be tied to one's employment as opposed to all people should have access to affordable healthcare? We can discuss if Obamacare achieved what it wanted to do as I believe it was not very successful, but it at its core is a different view point. Yes, people believing other countries pay the tariffs are clearly not understanding of how tariffs work.…

That’s not what I was saying. Obamacare and the ACA are the same thing. The ACA is the official name and Obamacare is an attempt at a derogatory nickname which became common. Hating one and liking the other is an inherently contradictory position. And yet it’s one a lot of people hold. That’s not a different point of view, that’s not having even the most basic understanding of the thing you have an opinion about.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#349

Post by frontfor »

jm_redwood wrote: post #336
tw04 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so the logical conclusion is that American consumers will end up paying the tariffs. That’s been the point all along… they are significantly raising taxes on the bottom 90% of Americans and most are too stupid to even understand it. Gotta pay for those tax cuts for the wealthy somehow.

it feels fair to call tariffs a VAT that goes away if the manufacturer produces things domestically which seems… reasonable? raise revenue and encourage domestic manufacturing. yeah, it sucks that I can’t buy a JetKVM right now. otoh being dependent on (often) adversarial nations for everything we buy is also not ideal.

Manufacture domestically will result in price increases, which again hits the bottom harder than some of us here. Is this what we want?

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#350

Post by nine_k »

senkora wrote: post #308
cyphertruck wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually wouldn't. The sale price will be pretty close to the current market price, maybe %10 more. If the Government kicks in funds to underwrite the deal (say a loan to TSMC) then the deal would likely happen exactly at market price. That means investors who sell are getting the current low market price or a little bit higher--- they will still be down the massive amount. This is really bailing out current manag…

> This is really bailing out current management-- letting them be replaced by the more capable TSMC people The trouble with a competent organization buying a decadent organization is that leadership at the decadent organization is often much better at winning political infighting (they have a lot of practice). So it’s very easy to end up in a situation where the disfunction metastases up into the parent. At the very…

Yes, the Boeing buying McDonnell case :(

But the buyer can just unconditionally lay off all the top brass, exactly for that reason. The layoff can be more of a golden parachute kind, to prevent any sabotage.

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