Live data from Hacker News

Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

digitalcourage.social

341–350 of 377 posts

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the case for so many things… it is why every attempt to make filling out your taxes in the United States fails completely.

What does it mean "to make filling out your taxes"??

*easier

Sorry

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The omission was likely in that the failure is in trying to make filing taxes simple.

It’s pretty dang simple today. If you’re a usual W-2 employee, anyone who can read and follow simple instructions can file without paying any preparer a dime. For those of us trying to collect all the weird tax situations: https://freetaxusa.com .

It could be way easier. Many countries send everything filled out and you just verify.

They already know all my income, my dividends, everything that is sent to the government already… why can’t they give me it all auto filled? They are pretty good at finding out if you left something off, so they could do that before hand.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#343
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe in "police" as a transnational group. I don't believe that the actions of police in some other country carries any information about the culture of police in mine. If police use these systems outside of their intended and legally mandated forms, that must be dealt with. We do need effective police though. We do that with robust surveillance infrastructure for police queries in the database, possible e…

The obvious question there is... Has it ever happened in yours?

I'd be surprised it you couldn't find some instances, but I'm also confident that those cases were dealt with by procedural enhancements.

Just recently we had a case where an employee was caught snooping in some address and family data. The person was fired, reported to the police for investigation, and the relevant employer is now looking at their processes to make sure it doesn't happen again. Along with that, everybody directly affected has been notified. That seems like a reasonable response to me.

I'm much more concerned with all the times we don't find out. We need strong checks on access to this data, which is fortunately also a legal requirement. I generally trust that the relevant authorities are keeping track of that.

Importantly, what I hope you're seeing from this reply is a trust in the institutions of my government. I trust that the processes are being followed, and that the processes are built in such a way that they check each other.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the strawman there. Not wanting to work [at times literally] shit jobs without excessive compensation, is not the same as everybody being idle. I can list thousands of things I'd rather do than clean public toilets, and I don't even do thousands of things! Though yes - I do think a huge chunk of the population would be generally idle, if possible, in terms of commercial productivity , and I see nothing wrong wi…

You not wanting to work "shit jobs" (without compensation you would consider excessive) doesn't mean that everybody doesn't want to work them (or even that everybody considers them to be "shit jobs"). I agree with your point about commercial productivity. I don't agree that it would crash the economy: it would crash GDP (by eliminating large classes of exploitative and abusive behaviour which currently prop GDP up),…

I wouldn't want to clean public toilets if I didn't need to do so. You'd be willing to do it for free. I think one of our views runs rather closer to the overwhelming majority of people, like 99.999%, than the other. This issue is really not the one you want to argue. But I understand that you have to argue it, because if you simply accepted this point then you must accept the fundamental problem. When everybody starts demanding substantial amounts of money for any labor they don't want to do, you're not only going to crash your gdp but see hyperinflation as well.

Now not only is the basic income pointless because it's no longer enough to afford anything (and increasing it further just sends you closer to Zimbabwe), but you'd also completely crash your currency meaning you'd also no longer be able to afford any imports (though exporters would be getting filthy rich - see: why China intentionally devalues their own currency). The country would be obligated to rapidly transition, formally or informally, to another currency as the default unit of trade for anything of value, further nullifying the basic income.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at SOPA/PIPA. They simultaneously pushed the same bill through both chambers to try and guarantee it would pass. Grassroots efforts led to it being overwhelmingly blocked in both cases. And then they just slowly slipped most of it's provisions through other legislation over the years.

I think we should be at least several decades past looking at the USA as a particularly functional democratic system... The US constitution, despite its biblical status in their culture, manages to be more of a distracting throw-word ("LOOK at how this bill helping provide healthcare OBSTRUCTS your CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to NOT CARE ABOUT THE POOR!" (Ok, not a great example)) than a functional constitution that limits…

Your opinion is fine and all, but it's moot to this point.

The exact same things are happening in the EU, as evident by this very legislation this thread is concerning.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at SOPA/PIPA. They simultaneously pushed the same bill through both chambers to try and guarantee it would pass. Grassroots efforts led to it being overwhelmingly blocked in both cases. And then they just slowly slipped most of it's provisions through other legislation over the years.

Except for a few types of bills that customarily originate in the house, most bills are introduced roughly simultaneously in both houses so that the information for debating the bill doesn't have to be brought twice. This obviously doesn't guarantee a bill will pass because it is required to pass both houses.

Every bill has to go through both chambers, but they usually originate in one and then are passed to the other once the originating chamber affirms them.

It is not common to push two independent bills simultaneously, despite your assertion so.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#347
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>advocated for a military draft where the draft eligible are only drawn up from the list of folks who voted yes on the war. I really like this position from an ethical point of view. But in reality you will be conquered by a neighboring country with different principles in about 3 days.

Voting yes on a war implies you're the one invading.

So you can just say that the war is defensive - and send those who voted against it to fight anyway? Or how does that work in your head?

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a solution if it passes with "Client-side scanning". Basically a AI bot watching your screen all day. You're gonna need a whole secure deviant device.

That is not what the law is about. It is client side scanning embedded in the apps themselves. Each app will have to deploy their own mechanism to intercept the messages. This is not (yet) an OS level scan so there is no AI bot watching your moves on your device yet. Furthermore the AI part will run on their own servers, not on the device. Precisely, the way it has been described, is when you hit the send button, it…

Windows Recall is just the proof of concept and boiling the frog on what's to come later down the road.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does direct democracy mitigate the issue that the representative is uninformed and not even reading what they voted for?

I think my argument was written in a way that could allow this misinterpretation, sorry. I wasn't claiming direct democracy makes people more informed, but I was saying it removes the additional corruption layer. Direct democracy doesn't cure ignorance, but it eliminates the corrupted/coerced middleman. An uninformed public voting directly is still more aligned with public interest than uninformed representatives vot…

I'm not at all convinced of the existence of this corruption (other than small scale one offs). I just think the voters want stupid and impossible things and vote for the politicians who promise them.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#350
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it clearly against the constitution? What happens when the constitution clashes with EU law? Can the constitution be amended and is it likely if there is a clash with EU law on this issue? Enormous pressure can be brought to bear in politicians over something like this. The most prominent British politician to oppose the Online Safety Act in the UK is being labelled as "helping people like Jimmy Saville" by the go…

the UK essentially does not have a constitution nor any significant judicial authority over lawmaking

I was replying to a comment about the German constitution
Post reply on HN