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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#341

Post by lightedman »

sneak wrote: post #301
303uru wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P365 is great if it fits in your hand. But agree, denial has me pretty put off.

The P365 has a design flaw where there is a pinch point on your palm when changing magazines. The first time my partner used it, she gave herself a blood blister on the palm of her hand. Additionally, the trigger is super mushy, with like 4 different sticky break points, where only the last one is actually for firing. I hated everything about it; we bought it only because it fit her hand. It was my first and last Sig…

"I have no idea why people buy pistols that aren’t Glocks."

Jam halfway through a magazine? I'll stick with my Ruger from the 80s, thanks.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#342

Post by franktankbank »

myrmidon wrote: post #328
franktankbank wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy that Sig Sauer is pushing back on this as lies then. (per featured article)

I don't think that is crazy at all, our whole system incentivizes corporate behavior exactly like this. From your tone I assume that you would expect Sig to come forward, analyze, discuss and hopefully solve these problems as soon as possible. But that would be utterly stupid from their point of view. Public opinion cares very little about the details-- anytime you get associated with issues like this is simply bad f…

I agree culture these days is default corrupted and crazy. Still crazy though. I think we need good old fashioned justice.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#343

Post by gosub100 »

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #102
darkteflon wrote: post #53

Lots of informative comments in the thread about how carrying with a chambered round reduces the time and complexity to getting a shot off. I have limited knowledge of guns. I understood that they had a physical safety switch that had to be manipulated before the firearm could be used. Is that the case? If so, is the safety left off when people are carrying with a round chambered? Or have I misunderstood the purpose…

> Lots of informative comments in the thread about how carrying with a chambered round reduces the time and complexity to getting a shot off. This information should be kept in mind whenever anyone, especially a gun advocate, expresses dismay at the frequency of police shootings in America. America is so awash in guns, and people willing to use them, that for the average cop it is better to shoot first and ask questi…

they dont "go home" in a body bag. and the rest of your post is just as hyperbolic and ignorant.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#344

Post by jdietrich »

solatic wrote: post #330
kortilla wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t true in robberies where someone pulls a gun as an intimidation tactic. There are plenty of videos where the store owner shoots a robber who pulled out a gun before the robber could fire.

It's rather debatable whether it should be legal for store owners to shoot robbers and call it self-defense; not all states protect shop owners in such circumstances, and state law may differentiate between when robbers pull lethal weaponry and when robbers pull toy guns that were not actual lethal threats. In the US you take further risk if there end up being racial differences between the shop owner and robber. Con…

>A more effective defense would be if that police-alarm button also released a quick-acting sleeping gas, but those aren't really available in real-world contexts and carry lots of unintentional risks.

Rapid fog generators seem ridiculous at first glance, but they're remarkably effective in many circumstances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-130jedbo

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#345

Post by whyever »

privatelypublic wrote: post #210
gottorf wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A thousandth of an inch would do it? They couldn't give more margin-of-safety to a critical part like that? If it's true, that's truly terrible design.

Its likely a misunderstanding and/or mischaracterization of "tolerance stacking." A safe example is bike chain. If each one is 1 inch +- 0.01", if every single one is +0.01" then ten links will be long by a tenth of an inch. And might pass QC on the bike when pedaled by hand- but it'll fall off when somebodies full bodyweight and 100hrs of wear is out into it.

That's not how errors add up, it's nonlinear. You have to take the sum of squares. So in your case, it wouldn't be 10 * 0.01 = 0.1, but sqrt(10 * 0.01^2) = 0.032, which is less than one third of a tenth.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#346

Post by gosub100 »

spl757 wrote: post #133

There are really two separate claims being made about the P320 and unintentional discharges. One claim is that the gun can fire when dropped at a certain angle from a certain height. The voluntary "recall" lets you send it back to Sig and they replace some parts. I think the cause was because the trigger itself was bulky enough for a drop to give it enough inertia to fire, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The other cla…

I think the first claim is cover for the 2nd. if they admit there are uncommanded discharges, their reputation is decimated and they will lose an entire batch of lawsuits. If they dont do anything, guns will keep uncommanded-discharging until there is overwhelming evidence (I think we're at that point already)

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#347

Post by jmogly »

AngryData wrote: post #315
ahoka wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That isn't going to stop crime in the US or make dangerous areas in the US really any safer though. Nobody is concerned about someone legally carrying deciding to randomly shoot them.

And more people with guns is what is going to stop crime and make dangerous areas safer?

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#348

Post by aaronmdjones »

wl wrote: post #324
jibe wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of an external safety is not a defect. Many guns, probably a majority of new sales don’t. Anyone buying P320 knows there is no external safety. Sig should be liable for defects, and potentially negligent design, but seems reasonable not to be able to sue them for not including an external safety.

The US military uses the M17 and the M18, two versions of the P320 that have manual safeties.

And most US law enforcement uses Glock pistols, which are also famous for having no external safety. There's a lever integrated into the trigger such that the trigger must be pulled before it can travel backward, and there's a safety internal to the slide that ensures the firing pin cannot travel forward until the trigger has been pulled, but there is no external safety anywhere. Pull the trigger (by any means, finger or otherwise -- tangled up in string, caught on a pointy object like a pen, whatever) and it will fire.

I think the new law preventing the suing of manufacturers for not including external safeties is a good thing.

I also think Sig Sauer are intentionally gas-lighting the public on the safety of the P320/M17/M18 and should withdraw it from the market.

Edit: I have nothing against Sig Sauer in general. I've shot a P228; it's a beautiful weapon, and I would buy one in a heartbeat. You couldn't pay me enough to have a P320.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#349

Post by antonymoose »

franktankbank wrote: post #309
spacephysics wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A week or so ago the FBI report investigating an incident of unintentional discharge back in 2024 was released via FOIA. This particular case was a police officer who had the firearm in the holster, and by just normal movement it went off. Multiple layers of the striker fire system safety’s failed, and fired the chambered round. What was particularly beneficial/unique is the P320 was kept in the holster when given to…

Crazy that Sig Sauer is pushing back on this as lies then. (per featured article)

It’s crazy if you have good morals and care about your fellow man.

If you want to make boatloads of cash and don’t care about lives, you follow the rules and the same playbook as Remington did when their rifles suffered a similar self-firing phenomenon that killed customers.

Delay, deny, defend yourself and take in as much cash as possible until you are legally boxed in. Hope at that point your profits are greater than your penalties, such that they are just another cost of doing business.

What amazes me are the Sig Sauer fanatics I see online in the gun communities defending them endlessly as if they can do no harm.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#350

Post by franktankbank »

antonymoose wrote: post #349
franktankbank wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy that Sig Sauer is pushing back on this as lies then. (per featured article)

It’s crazy if you have good morals and care about your fellow man. If you want to make boatloads of cash and don’t care about lives, you follow the rules and the same playbook as Remington did when their rifles suffered a similar self-firing phenomenon that killed customers. Delay, deny, defend yourself and take in as much cash as possible until you are legally boxed in. Hope at that point your profits are greater th…

Delay, deny, defend is a pretty bold position when your customers are guaranteed armed.
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