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Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

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Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#341

Post by scotty79 »

thunderfork wrote: post #156
scotty79 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's insane is copyright. How come you can own intellectual property but not pay a property tax? The ecosystem would be much healthier if to get copyright protections you should declare value of your IP (that you are obligated to sell for if the buyer pops up) and pay tax on this for every year you hold the IP.

Can you imagine if we evaluated property taxes this way? Yeah, nice single family home, better hope nobody offers you the same amount you paid for it or it's back to apartment living for you and your kids.

If you live there there should be some protections. But when it comes to rentals or vacation homes I think those rules could be great as well.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#342

Post by DANmode »

DANmode wrote: post #340
DANmode wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please name a couple to get someone started who's hacking on webapps? I'd really appreciate it.

(as would future readers, I'm sure)

https://github.com/ten-framework/ten-vad

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#343

Post by sandspar »

layer8 wrote: post #29
sandspar wrote: post #26

Neat, we finally know the answer! What is the sound of one hand clapping? Translation by Nancy Qunqar.

I can clap with one hand (fingers on palm) and it produces a clapping sound.

Ah, so the sound of one hand clapping is: clapping! A little underwhelming, to be honest. You mean I climbed the Zhen Zi mountains and performed the Seven Labors to learn... this?

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#344

Post by herdandcurdle »

arnejenssen wrote: post #34

Who is Nicolai Winther? https://medium.com/@lehandreassen/who-is-nicolai-winther-985...

TL;DR: Whisper occasionally hallucinates and credits “Nicolai Winther” at the ends of Norwegian transcriptions during silent audio segments, likely because the real Nicolai Winther - a former YouTuber who created subtitles—appears frequently in its (likely YouTube‑based) training data. This highlights how limited Norwegian training (only ~266 hours) can cause the model to overfit on specific names and phrases when uncertain.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#345

Post by wahnfrieden »

DANmode wrote: post #342
DANmode wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(as would future readers, I'm sure)

https://github.com/ten-framework/ten-vad

I last used silero but haven’t kept up with stage of the art so didn’t mention it

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#346

Post by mort96 »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #329
mort96 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't overfitting just when the model picks up on an unintended pattern in the training data? Isn't that precisely what this is?

not necessarily, no. if you have 60% of examples for silence being the hallucination, it just learns the (what you detect as) wrong connection.

Which ... would be overfitting. It picks up on a pattern in the training data that we don't want it to pick up on and which causes it to generalize poorly.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#347

Post by berkes »

pbmonster wrote: post #108
berkes wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence against what? "Big AI" is transparent and open about the fact they use all sorts of copyrighted material to train the data. How would "we see an exact chunk of text from our copyrighted material" add to that?

It appears they have not been training on the official studio subtitle files, but on community transcriptions/translations commonly distributed with torrents. So not only are they training on copyrighted material, but they didn't even pay for it once, and then they didn't even do minimal data cleaning before training. Which, by the way, is the type of cleaning their LLMs could have done.

> commonly distributed with torrents

This is the key part. And it's not certain this happened. Not defending AI data gobbling, but if we truly and honestly want to fight big-AI use of content, we cannot just presume bad faith. OpenSubtitles.org has a large dataset that is "public". It is be a dataset perfectly suitable, intended for, and therefore used for, training and data analysis.

I've used it for data analysis.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#348

Post by berkes »

sofixa wrote: post #125
berkes wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence against what? "Big AI" is transparent and open about the fact they use all sorts of copyrighted material to train the data. How would "we see an exact chunk of text from our copyrighted material" add to that?

Their main defence is that it's fair use because it's transformative (like a human reading a book, getting inspired, and writing something of their own) and not a copypaste illegal distribution (like a human scanning that book and selling it themselves). Having models hallucinate copyright notices shows that some content is being copypasted as is, which kind of goes against the transformative argument. (Note: I think…

> which kind of goes against the transformative argument.

Indeed a good example. We've seen several examples of code snippets where this happens too, mentioned on HN.

But it does not prove that they infringed copyright by ingesting "illegal" stuff, as GP tried to argue. Seeing a verbatim string only "proves" that it came from a specific source. But not if this source was illegally acquired, which was my point.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#349

Post by berkes »

nemomarx wrote: post #112
berkes wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this evidence of that fact? Honest question. I can see how this might show that subtitles from online sub communities are used, or that maybe even original subtitles from e.g. DVDs are used. But isn't it already known and admitted (and allowed?) that AI uses all sorts of copyrighted material to train models?

The Chinese subtitles for silence use a common mark for pirated media in that language, according to other commentors here. In general it's pretty likely that if you're finding non professional subtitles they were distributed with pirated media in some form, that's where you get the most fan subs after all

> were distributed with pirated media in some form,

I disagree with this conclusion. I've used e.g. the opensubtitles dataset for some data-analysis in the past. It's a huge dataset, freely available and precisely intended for such use. Now, if all the data in the opensubtitles dataset is legal, is another point.

So one might argue that using this opensubtitles dataset, makes one complicit to the illegal activities of opensubtitles themselves, IDK: IANAL.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#350

Post by kranke155 »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #174
kranke155 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not clear that training is fair use. That’s being contested in court I think.

Training isn’t recreating or distributing so copyright won’t apply if the ruling is actually consistent with the intention of the law, which it may not. Using copyrighted materials and then meaningfully transforming it isn’t infringement. LLMs only recreate original work in the same way I am when I wrote the first sentence of this paragraph because it probably exists word for word somewhere else too

Thats your interpretation, not the law.
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