This Apple policy is the only thing stopping chrome from having a full monopoly, and we should be careful trying to remove it
[deleted]
Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA
341–350 of 394 posts
Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA
#342Even if you get past the roadblocks Apple has put in place, it’s not beer and skittles for browser makers in the EU. The CRA, which is now in effect, lists browsers as class I important products. Technical documentation, design documentation, user documentation, security conformance testing, a declared support period at the time of download, software bill of materials, the legal obligation to respond to and make all…
We are not generally used to this in our field but just think about the amount of paperwork you have to go through in order to construct a bridge or an airplane. Browsers have become a critical component and it seem not really unexpected that there will eventually be legal requirements to help to ensure that browsers are safe given the amount of software that runs on top of browsers. And this is also not new, there h…
Curious then that this safety regulation should apply only to browsers on iOS and not every other type of app distributed.
Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hear me out, I have a tinfoil hat theory. What if, those requirements weren't put to help small shops making a new browser, but to guarantee the big shops who already have a browser are getting fined? * hits bong *
And this is why the EU's GDP versus the US is now only 65% and shrinking. The regulations are about beating US companies into compliance, sometimes with righteous motives; but there's no forethought on how a domestic EU startup might be able to comply, or how a startup would convince investors to take the gamble.
Actually, that's because the USA has the world reserve currency as a result of the former Bretton Woods system, itself a result of World War 2. This allows it to command a large exchange rate premium without having to actually work for it. This is the reason the USA has a larger GDP per capita than every other country except for a bunch of tax havens (which have artificially inflated total GDP).
Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA
#344This Apple policy is the only thing stopping chrome from having a full monopoly, and we should be careful trying to remove it
We have to put more power in the hands of one organization that fights for our rights. Consider adding this to your website: This link does not exist right now, but it will allow EFF to take control when necessary. E.g. by nudging people away from Chrome if it becomes too powerful.
chrome could just block the script if they try this
Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA
#345Two of the arguments just aren’t true. If you use another browser today even if it does use Apple’s engine, Apple’s not making search revenue from Google. The second point is that it came out in the Epic trial that 90% of App Store revenue comes from games and in app purchasing. Those apps are not going to the web. Third, if the only thing stopping great web apps is Apple, why aren’t their popular web apps for Androi…
> If you use another browser today even if it does use Apple’s engine, Apple’s not making search revenue from Google.
Yes, but this would limit the browser technology to Apple's implementation, or lack there of.
> Those apps are not going to the web.
It's likely because the mobile browsers don't support enough graphics and lacking robust control features of native applications.
> Third, if the only thing stopping great web apps is Apple ...
Having wide browser support across all operating systems would definitely increase the adoption speed of new technologies. Remember how IE7 kept us back for years?
That being said, a lot of people are bothered by Apple's success and would like to access to iOS ecosystem without paying anything to them.
Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA
#346Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reddit does this, too. It is used to measure sharing something as some sort of analytic/goal on your account for engagement. I tend to just screenshot them now after the annoying middle menu started popping up for me. I really am not a fan of apps wanting me to engage more with the app when I'm trying to engage with real-life people.
Reddit also has that annoying pop-up when you screenshot something. “Sending this post to someone? It looks better when you share it.” Perhaps they mean it looks better for Reddit’s smarmy user engagement metrics.
They wanted to hire me at one point for their iOS app. I declined; I didn't want any part of that. What a mess.
Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA
#347Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…
I get really annoyed when I open safari type something in the top bar to search the google search happens. then google has a pop up asking me if i want to be using google search app instead. to which the answers are Continue(highlighted in blue) or stay on web (almost grayed out). and if you forget and click on continue it takes you to the fucking app store. then if i go back to the browser and try to go back to the…
Oh my god yes, it's absolutely infuriating. I chastise myself every time I accidentally click Continue, because it means I have to suffer through another Safari→App Store→Safari→App Store loop..
Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
Security for who against what threat? It's hard to make the case this is possibly in the users' interest. This is about securing the phone in Apple's interest against the desires of the user.
As an iOS and web user, it is my desire that Apple doesn't allow other browser engines because immediately Google and other web devs will start pushing webapps that only work with mobile Chrome and we'll all be forced to install a Chromium browser to use certain websites, it becomes default and users will think "Safari sucks now, a bunch of websites don't work with it," finally ending Google's last bit of real compet…
I mean, none of this really affects me. Forcing safari on me does.
Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
Security for who against what threat? It's hard to make the case this is possibly in the users' interest. This is about securing the phone in Apple's interest against the desires of the user.
> It's hard to make the case this is possibly in the users' interest. Not in the least. If anyone who wants can make a complete browser for iOS, then, for instance, Meta could come out with their own Facebook™ Browser that does extra super duper tracking on them and everyone they interact with online. Or Russia/China/Trump/Obama/whoever you hate most could make their own browser that inserts propaganda into websites,…
I don't trust the app store to act in my interest at all. They have damn gambling apps all over the place.
Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA
#350Two of the arguments just aren’t true. If you use another browser today even if it does use Apple’s engine, Apple’s not making search revenue from Google. The second point is that it came out in the Epic trial that 90% of App Store revenue comes from games and in app purchasing. Those apps are not going to the web. Third, if the only thing stopping great web apps is Apple, why aren’t their popular web apps for Androi…
> If you use another browser today even if it does use Apple’s engine, Apple’s not making search revenue from Google. Yes, but this would limit the browser technology to Apple's implementation, or lack there of. > Those apps are not going to the web. It's likely because the mobile browsers don't support enough graphics and lacking robust control features of native applications. > Third, if the only thing stopping gre…
That still isn’t logical. If Apple is the only thing holding great web apps back, then why don’t companies just spend money on a web app + iOS app instead of also creating an Android app?
Even if they did an iOS app + web app for Android, if it were just Apple, they would still save money on Android Play Store fees.
But the truth is that browsers aren’t good enough on Android even though it is “open” [sic] and most Android phones sold are so underpowered that you have to make a native app to get any type of responsiveness.
Having the Firefox engine or Chrome engine isn’t going to make it any better. If the alternate browsers that are on the Mac are any indication from both companies - they are going to be slower and less battery efficient.