Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses • Hacker News Board

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#341

Post by decimalenough » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 9:39 PM UTC

BirdieNZ wrote: post #321

School-Cotton wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling someone “just speak Japanese and blend in!” is sort of an absurd suggestion. That is impossible if you’re not East Asian and even if you are, it would take years of study.

Being East Asian doesn't make you blend in (visually). Japanese people look different to Korean and Chinese people.

The three are a Venn diagram with much more overlap than any of the three officially pretend. A Japanese friend of mine passes for a (Chinese) local across China and SE Asia.

Clothing and makeup is a better giveaway than facial features or skin tone, but even that is becoming harder with K-pop creating a pan-Asian style to aspire to.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#342

Post by projectazorian » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 9:39 PM UTC

patrickscoleman wrote: post #260

paulgerhardt wrote: post #14

Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this. One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advisor to prevent over exposure (it mostly works but made me curious enough to visit). Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physi…

Even as a foreigner who speaks Japanese, I frequently got the "we're closed" and crossing the hands in an X response while locals continued eating. Sometime they'd laugh and I'd hear "gaijin" (rude slang for foreigner) as I walked out. But plenty of places were super warm and friendly after the initial apprehension if you speak Japanese and read some kanji. Worth the effort!

I never got this, but at busy times it was not uncommon to get a super apologetic "we're full" when there were clearly a few seats available. Honestly I get it, foreigners are higher effort to deal with and if you're already busy you might not want to deal with that. Or they could be holding seats for regulars, etc.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#343

Post by Aloisius » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 9:41 PM UTC

onlypassingthru wrote: post #326

missedthecue wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very successful cultural exports in the 1980s, 90s, and early 2000s. Now the kids who grew up in that era are young adults and have some money. There are many low(ish) crime, polite, picturesque destinations, rich in art, culture, and history, but Kazakhstan never exported anime.

It's no anime, but who doesn't think of Kazakhstan every time they bite an apple?

I doubt most people even know why one might think about Kazakhstan when biting into an apple.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#344

Post by flexagoon » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 9:43 PM UTC

keysdev wrote: post #240

paulgerhardt wrote: post #14

Missed opportunity to talk about the locals creative responses to this. One cafe in Tokyo is asking customers to leave negative reviews on Google and Trip Advisor to prevent over exposure (it mostly works but made me curious enough to visit). Another specific $10 Michelin guide ramen restaurant only lets you order from a vending machine outside using a payment method you can’t access as a foreigner (one needs a physi…

Its about time we do that. This look online for good local places to go needs to stop. You either live there for some times and discover the place by getting to know the locals or yeah you just do not get to know the place.

Would that really work? I've lived in the same city for my entire life, and I still mostly discover places to go to online.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#345

Post by projectazorian » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 9:45 PM UTC

tmtvl wrote: post #294

patrickscoleman wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even as a foreigner who speaks Japanese, I frequently got the "we're closed" and crossing the hands in an X response while locals continued eating. Sometime they'd laugh and I'd hear "gaijin" (rude slang for foreigner) as I walked out. But plenty of places were super warm and friendly after the initial apprehension if you speak Japanese and read some kanji. Worth the effort!

If I remember correctly, gaijin is just how you say 'foreigner' in standard Japanese. The rude slang is jingai. And I also have the experience of people really appreciating it if you actually speak and read Japanese. Which makes sense, I can easily imagine it being a relief to find that you can just speak with someone normally instead of having to struggle with this absolutely bonkers weird language that one may be o…

> And I also have the experience of people really appreciating it if you actually speak and read Japanese.

100%. You don't even need to know that much. Even if you have to switch to English, showing respect by demonstrating some effort to learn the local language and culture goes a long way.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#346

Post by the_af » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 9:46 PM UTC

ccppurcell wrote: post #319

gtowey wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worse than that. I'm starting to think that there may not really be an ethical way to be a tourist in a foreign country. Especially coming from a high cost of living area to a lower one. Just being there puts you in economic competition with the locals. You can spend more on everything than everyone else and that raises their costs too. Especially housing and food. Those fancy resorts take all the prime…

I know what you mean but I live close to the border of another country. Can it really be unethical to stay in a hotel in a city two hours west but not two hours northeast because of a border? Maybe you're just talking about the American experience. There are certainly places where it is clearer cut. Hawaii and Barcelona come to mind.

It's unethical to do tourism in Barcelona? What's so "clear cut"?

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#347

Post by veqq » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 9:49 PM UTC

anon-3988 wrote: post #168

cedws wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My home country, the UK, has already been through this cultural erosion which is why I respect Japan's right to defend its own. London in particular has become a place for everybody and at the same time for nobody. It's a city of people of different values and wavelengths with very little shared strata compared with Tokyo.

I am from a country in South East Asia, and its sad here as well. We have absolutely 0 connection to our ancestors from just 100 years ago. We (and me) have truly forgotten and don't have any identity beyond the surface level. We suffered from Arabification of every part of our culture. I honestly think the original culture is pretty much extinct. Very, very few of the incoming generation even desire to uphold and re…

Malaysia?

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#348

Post by decimalenough » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 9:49 PM UTC

toephu2 wrote: post #337

cedws wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My home country, the UK, has already been through this cultural erosion which is why I respect Japan's right to defend its own. London in particular has become a place for everybody and at the same time for nobody. It's a city of people of different values and wavelengths with very little shared strata compared with Tokyo.

Yup, this happens to any melting pot city (Paris, New York, LA, San Francisco, etc). The downside of multiculturalism is these places become low-trust societies. Do you dare leave your bike outside unlocked in these cities?

Bicycle theft is endemic in Japan as well.

Of course, being Japan, they also have a compulsory bike registration scheme and police can and do (not-so-)randomly stop people on the street to check that they're not riding stolen bikes.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#349

Post by the_af » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 9:52 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #177

cultofmetatron wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really miss the days when it was possible to be welcomed pretty much anywhere as a foreigner and have almost universal expectations of high quality, scam-free experiences you can still have that. I'm a fulltime traveller. the key is to stay in a place longer. I usually stay in a country for at least a month. that gives you time to meet and actually get to know locals. thats how you get invited to the really cool…

Yes, I agree that it's a better way to travel if you can do it, but most people can't [1]. That said, even for short-term tourists, Japan used to be kind of a miracle in terms of the quality and service you would get for the money. I know it sounds like hipster whining, but that time is in the past. [1] My snobby hot-take is that if you can't travel this way you shouldn't do recreational international travel at all,…

> My snobby hot-take is that if you can't travel this way you shouldn't do recreational international travel at all

That's a bad take, because it means if you're not rich or a hippie backpacker without attachments, you cannot do international travel.

What's worse, many of these issues affect local tourism within your own country as well (ruining places for the locals, lots of tourist traps sprouting, etc).

So effectively the advice becomes "stay at home, don't vacation, or if you do vacation stay at some prepackaged place".

Which I frankly disagree with.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#350

Post by the_af » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 9:56 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #205

impendia wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to live in Japan in 1999-2001, and I was just there again for a month this summer. Anyway, I disagree with you: Japan is still a miracle in terms of the quality and service you get for the money. I saw this many times over. Perhaps not in Kyoto, or in the most touristed areas of Tokyo. Or in whatever random place got featured in some anime, or whatnot. The article mentions Yamaguchi, Toyama, Morioka, etc., and…

> Anyway, I disagree with you: Japan is still a miracle in terms of the quality and service you get for the money. I saw this many times over. I assume you mean "relative to other places" here, and in that sense, I agree. Japan is not yet entirely Epcot Center. > Perhaps not in Kyoto, or in the most touristed areas of Tokyo. Or in whatever random place got featured in some anime, or whatnot. Right, exactly. Except th…

So is the advice "do not visit Japan, learn about it from books and the internet"? Or just pretend it doesn't exist? Maybe do the same with all other countries?

The Japanese in turn do a lot of tourism abroad, to the point the "Japanese tourist" is as much a stereotype as the American one. Should they stay put and not leave their home towns?