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Engineered Addictions

masonyarbrough.substack.com

341–350 of 467 posts

Re: Engineered Addictions

#341
> Pure Intentions: Founders, like myself, genuinely want to connect people, share authentic moments, and build community. The early versions feel magical because they follow this original mission.

No. This idea that SC (or similar business cultures) want to change the world for the better is a cliche. At a certain point, after all the history of these companies, you don’t get a pure-intentions pass any more.

And in particular: I don’t believe that Zuckerberg’s motivations were ever good.

> Different Funding Methods: What if social platforms were funded like utilities or public goods instead of venture-backed and advertisement driven growth machines? Subscription models, cooperatives, or public funding could prioritize user wellbeing over engagement metrics. Wikipedia thrives as a donation-funded cooperative. These models exist - they just don’t scale at venture-required rates.

This is good. You need to rethink the whole model. Even if that means that you don’t get to growth-hack people.

This is far better than the usual model:

1. Admit there’s a problem

2. It’s systemic

3. The fake solution: some feel-good manifesto about making X but “for humans”. But nothing about the incentives have been changed. The fundamental axiom is still there: we are entitled to make money off social media just like before, but we have a lot of words and paragraphs about doing so goodly.

The same thing happened with an attempt at making neoliberalism palpatable. “Stakeholder Capitalism”. The idea is that we just continue with neoliberalism but have a manifesto about how all stakeholders are taken into account. But nothing about the system or the power centers are changed. So you still get a corporations and their boards of directors having as much power as before.

> Regulated Algorithms: We regulate tobacco companies because their products are addictive and harmful. Algorithmic transparency or giving users control could preserve the benefits while reducing the addictive design patterns. The EU’s Digital Services Act already requires algorithmic transparency from large platforms.

I’m not sure. This seems like a half-measure. Regulating something which is inherently harmful (according to the simile) just causes more bloat.

If I’m addicted to nicotine I’m already hooked. No advertisement doesn’t help me. I already know what I want. You’re gonna make the packaging less sexy? Make me go into the Sin Section of the shop to get my fix? I’m gonna do that anyway.

What you need is an effective and mandatory opt-out option. Let me ban myself from buying these products. And provide me with alternatives (grocery shops already sell both tobacco and nicotine gum).

Give me an option to opt-out. Don’t just make a whole regulatory beast which can prey on me but one hundred checkboxes are marked and it’s very ethical and so on.

> Alternative Metrics: Instead of measuring daily active users and time-on-platform, what if platforms were evaluated on user wellbeing, relationship quality, or real-world connections facilitated? What if we measured social platforms like we measure hospitals?

This would have been naive and just a loophole if the premise was to let companies keep doing their thing. They would just rebrand with fake metrics. Oh you have sent X messages this month, that means you are connecting and according to some research people who IM more are happier blah blah blah.

But this could have some merit given the previous utilities/public goods point.

Re: Engineered Addictions

#342

Late in the thread, but is this really addiction? How do you differentiate between addiction and people really liking something? In my opinion, unless people try to stop doing the thing but they can't will themselves to do that, it isn't an addiction. It is not OK to dilute terms used to describe serious problems. I am not saying tech addiction can't happen, I just haven't seen any evidence to that effect. Mere depen…

> addiction is [dependency] plus inability to quit the habit despite strong and persistent effort

> I am not saying tech addiction can't happen, I just haven't seen any evidence to that effect

Which planet do you live on? It's hard to read this in good faith.

Nobody has a "technology usage" addiction. The digital dopamine drip-feed in your pocket delivers by design in a way a spoon or double-entry bookkeeping does not, despite the fact that you can use the spoon to get high on a substance you traded for money.

Re: Engineered Addictions

#343
post #330
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We make fun of the state run businesses of old communist regimes, how wasteful they were, how mismanaged they were, how they produced stuff nobody wanted and so on. I'm increasingly getting a similar feeling for VC fueled tech. It's all smoke and mirrors of hype (was blockchain or web3.0 yesterday, AI and quantum today). There is so much wasted money, especially after quantitative easing and negative interest rates o…

Publicly traded is no better. Lets not forget whole Meta and Metaverse and VR "investment". Google basically launching entire physical products and then killing them and refunding everyone (Stadia)... One might question would we as society be better off if that money was spend on more efficient factories or say nuclear powerplants?

How about public education and healthcare?

Re: Engineered Addictions

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually extremely violent revolt I don't think the appetite is there in most places

Many EU countries are pretty nice places to live, and didn't need a violent revolution to make it happen. All it took was democracy, a population willing to stand for its rights, and an elite which understood that building a welfare state is preferable outcome over having a violent Communist/Fascist revolution. A capitalist system with right amount of social democracy to prevent worst concentration of wealth is the b…

>and didn't need a violent revolution to make it happen

You really need to read more history about Europe.

Re: Engineered Addictions

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Board not CEO but see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revlon_duties For CEO see https://www.rgrdlaw.com/cases-in-re-dole-food-co-inc-stockho...

The first paragraph from the first source: > The Court declared that, in certain limited circumstances indicating that the "sale" or "break-up" of the company is inevitable, the fiduciary obligation of the directors of a target corporation are narrowed significantly, the singular responsibility of the board being to maximize immediate stockholder value by securing the highest price available. Seems to imply that unde…

Yes, under normal circumstances, the "business judgment rule" applies which is much more favorable to boards. Satisfying it requires only that directors:

    - act in good faith;
    - act in the best interests of the corporation;
    - act on an informed basis;
    - not be wasteful;
    - not involve self-interest (duty of loyalty concept plays a role here).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_judgment_rule#Standar...

Re: Engineered Addictions

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what common good is. Common good never requires that people share core values. Common good historically was what's good for the city/polis/country/band/family. Basically, you make some (ideally relatively small) sacrifice to your own interest for the sake of a larger group you share fate with. There are more formal/mathematical versions of it, for example in Bentham where the common good is essentially a w…

Here is the etymology of the word: common(adj.) c. 1300, "belonging to all, owned or used jointly, general, of a public nature or character," from Old French comun "common, general, free, open, public" (9c., Modern French commun), from Latin communis "in common, public, shared by all or many; general, not specific; familiar, not pretentious." This is from a reconstructed PIE compound ko-moin-i- "held in common," comp…

The idea of common good is centuries older than the appearance of French or the English translation.

It has nothing to do with shared values. It's exactly as I described it above.

Notice the reconstructed PIE means to move together. Common good is about the interests of groups that co-move rather than groups that share values.

This makes sense even in family contexts. What is good for the family is often different from what any one person wants. Think about things like choosing dinner for a big hungry family on a long road trip.

Often the best solution is at best everyone's third or fourth choice because values and desires differ.

Re: Engineered Addictions

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After Stalin's death, the Soviet union wasn't a total failure. And few can argue that China is a total failure today. But they paid a much higher price than what's acceptable. To make a somewhat successful "common good" society you first need to exterminate large swatches of the population. (This includes Scandinavian countries, which is less common knowledge). Then you can build on the new generation which won't res…

> After Stalin's death, the Soviet union wasn't a total failure. And few can argue that China is a total failure today. But they paid a much higher price than what's acceptable. To make a somewhat successful "common good" society you first need to exterminate large swatches of the population. (This includes Scandinavian countries, which is less common knowledge). Then you can build on the new generation which won't r…

They're called Sami, and I don't think they've been treated much worse than any other ethnicity in Nordic countries.

What I'm referring to are the eugenics programs in Sweden, where unfit people were sterilized and/or had their children taken from them. These kind of programs were also present in North America, for what it's worth. The complete extent of these programs will probably forever be unknown, in all countries. Scandinavian countries are probably the countries who are most open about this, just like with suicide reporting.

As for Finland, they had a communist revolution and a very brutal civil war about the same time as the Russians. So their "common good" society was also born from a bloodbath, although the communists lost the war.

Norway is probably an exception. They're building a "common good" society on oil fortunes, just like the Gulf states have no problem with giving generous welfare for all of their citizens.

Re: Engineered Addictions

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The legal obligation to represent shareholders erodes morality This "legal obligation" is an internet rumor that does not exist in the real world. Yes, if your company has competing buyout offers of $1m and $2m and the board takes the $1m offer because they received a bribe, it will come up. Otherwise, it never does. The proof is in the pudding (please go find me even one case where shareholders have successfully i…

Just because the risk of getting successfully sued for making decisions against the interests of shareholders is low, it doesn't mean that it won't influence executive decision making. CEOs want to avoid legal risks above all else and thus the laws around fiduciary duty can have a chilling effect even if judges generally go along with the CEO's interpretation of what is in the interest of shareholders.

It’s not low, it’s zero. There are literally no successful cases ever except the buyout scenario already mentioned.

Find me a serious lawyer anywhere that says this is a legitimate concern.

Re: Engineered Addictions

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a better idea: let's combat the notion that putting shareholder value ahead of the common good is moral.

Then don't make a company with shares. This is like complaining in a tennis court that it's better to play football. Anybody who makes his business a company with shares will be beholden to shareholders, even if he's the only shareholder. There are plenty of venues for any activity, which isn't structured in this way. 1. Nobody forces you to use a smart phone. 2. Nobody forces you to have social media or use it. 3. N…

1 and 2 are simply false

Re: Engineered Addictions

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Europe is moving g toward digital independence even more. They've still got Instagram and WhatsApp and everything, but I can see them moving more aggressively toward Facebooks core business model (ie, programmatic adverising) and essentially creating a European internet bubble. Would be nice for Europeans to be able to have their own social media sites which operate less aggressively on your attention span -…

We are building a social network with chronological feed. I am thinking how to make it sustainable without raising VC funding but not doing aggressive ad targeting. Obviously people are not going to pay for a social network. So maybe just very generic sponsered links?

Could do what redsit does and offer programmatic advertising targeted based on subreddits
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