Earlier quoted context omitted.
ignoring the fact the move of the capital is controversial move among the groups previous administrations wanted Israel to work with. The delay of the capital move was a tool held over Israel's head by previous US administrations that Donald Trump gave up, seemingly for nothing.
Have we ever done such a thing to any other country?
Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague
341–350 of 407 posts
Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well let me put it this way, I’m under no illusions that foreign nations will always attempt to exert their influence over American affairs. The only obligations we maintain with other nations are the ones we committed ourselves to, and yes, I know some of that is in question right now, but for what it’s worth I’m actually on the side of maintaining our commitments rather than pissing all over them or playing this si…
Returning to the OP for a second, we're talking about the ICC issuing a warrant for Netanyahu for war crimes he has clearly overseen in Gaza. I appreciate that you've slippery sloped this into a "they're coming for us next" and I cannot prove or disprove such a notion. But putting that aside for a second; how is not acceptable for the ICC to have an opinion on the events that have unfolded in the Gaza strip and accor…
Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the video you linked, I think she was being hyperbolic in order to stress the level of support that the US has for Israel. I don't think she meant it literally. If the US's support for Israel ever hurt the USA in places that it genuinely cared about, then I think you'd see its support for Israel diminish or even dissipate. As it stands support for Israel is very convenient for the US industrial military complex an…
I disagree. She was speaking to an Israeli lobby and was being truthful (her legislative work has been as pro Israel as they come). I think it is important for the rest of us to recognize that Jews are very attached to Israel, and while they may be fine Americans (and are a major part of our country), it is also important to recognize when decisions advocated by rich and powerful forces (such as recent arrests of col…
Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
Trump, not the US, did
That's still for rage-bait. Trump says a lot of things, most of them aren't true. Everyone operating in good faith, knew this wasn't true. Nobody above a room temperature IQ would think the US would invade Denmark. Edit: @danieljacksonno answering your comment from below here: >He repeated it several times. Trump repeats everything all the time. So what? That's what all politicians do. Your brain (if you have one) is…
Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Isn’t this because they are non-members? No. For non-members it is assumed that they by default ask the ICC to not investigate any human rights crimes either involving their state, or on their soil. Which the ICC then has to respect ... Or that WAS the case until last year. In the middle of their existing court case against Israel it became clear that Israel requested ICC drop the case on their territory, and of co…
> The US and Israel, when they realized they didn't either, publicly withdrew so they'd remain honest. This seems like an incredibly charitable reading of the US withdrawal given the ASMPA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr... I’m curious, are you Israeli yourself? > Oh it is an international treaty. So actually modifying the statutes would be a prolonged process involving all existing part…
Nope. Not even close.
> I feel like you’re not telling me the whole story here. They can’t legally modify their statutes without consulting with the UN, but they can publish whatever statutes they want? What does this even mean?
This is international law, which is a name used for a huge mess of international treaties. What is there to say? There is no international police. If you don't respect international law, there is nobody to compel you to do anything. In essentially every case, you're beyond the reach of the counter party to the treaty (especially in this case since the ICC has zero reach). This is true whether "you" refers to a person or a country.
Hell, there's even valid reasons this keeps happening like that the political situation sometimes changes far faster than treaties can be negotiated.
There were some truly exceptional times in history, like the ending of WW2, where everyone agreed on a few rules and some limited things happened, but that time is long gone. Most countries find the international order deeply unfair, especially the "you're not allowed to move any borders unless you're one of the original nuclear powers" part. Russia is allowed to attack ... Iran is not. The "non-aligned movement" is essentially aligned on a single point: they all want to start limited wars against one or multiple of their neighbors but would face total economic collapse or worse if they did that and the US responded. That is the last straw holding the UN treaties in existence, the only enforcement mechanism that has survived 80 years of UN disintegration.
And now Trump got elected and has been sighted near said last straw with scissors, asking for money, complaining the straw costs too much. But don't be fooled: there's a lot of shouting at Trump, but nobody working to strengthen the treaties with a few more straws. And while I hate Trump, you have to give him this one: if he cuts, he may be giving the start signal for WW3, but saying he's causing it, is absurd.
Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague
#346Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But I do think that having an outside court publicly try the guilt or innocence of somebody within the U.S. is much more palatable than having some non-court within the U.S. decide on whether non-U.S. citizens living outside the U.S. should live or die. If I were neutral on America and if a neutral disposition, you might be correct. However, I’m not. The President of the United States is elected to be a civil and m…
I'm sure I am not alone to be alarmed and disgusted at the satisfaction in "winning" from a position of moral deficiency. As an American I reject and reprove this attitude.
My point was that even without the moral victory, there are real problems and limits with an International court attempting to second-guess our actions against hostile powers and serve process to our leaders, and that in reality, they’re not winning that fight. Certainly not today they’re not.
Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
you are being dishonest. Only 161 people were convicted at Nurembourg trials, Nazi Germany's population was 70 mln (I am not even including Italy or Japan). The rest of the Nazis were given amnesty and continued working for the USA, or continued living/serving as usual as part of West Germany's Wehrmacht forces. The whole process was heavily politicized and completely sham, massive tortures were used to obtain "evide…
What sort of punishment do you think would have been appropriate for the systemic extermination of an entire race of people? And for starting a war that killed tens of millions? For an illegal coup against the government of a country (which is what the Nazis did in 33)? How could you think that 161 convictions was enough for this? Far more than that had direct agency and culpability for those crimes.
Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are also talking past facts. >The Act recognized Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel and called for Jerusalem to remain an undivided city. The proposed law was adopted by the Senate (93–5),[2] and the House (374–37). The Act became law without a presidential signature on November 8, 1995. Your context is deflecting that this is US law, adopted by more than supermajority in both houses and trying to du…
and "I guess" that Donald Trump is an outlier when its comes to how US presidents treat Israel. That the Sentate passed the law is not entirely pertinent because I am talking about how US presidents treat Israel not US Presidents and the Sentate. I get your point that the senate passed the law in 1995 and its good context, however it doesn't do anything in showing how the sequence of US presidents since then have dec…
and btw, to address "I feel like they didn't deserve that", israel didn't really want embassy moved. because (obviously) palestinians got angry and started a wave of violence that lasted for year or so and resulted in bunch of dead and wounded.
Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let’s say for the sake of argument, that’s true just to shortcut this: the PRC is also not party to the Rome Statute. Neither is Russia if you’re wondering. The largest military of a country party to the Rome Statute and the largest financial contributor to the ICC is Japan. Good luck.
Yeah, I don't think the ICC is going to be relevant in that environment.
Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague
#350Earlier quoted context omitted.
Returning to the OP for a second, we're talking about the ICC issuing a warrant for Netanyahu for war crimes he has clearly overseen in Gaza. I appreciate that you've slippery sloped this into a "they're coming for us next" and I cannot prove or disprove such a notion. But putting that aside for a second; how is not acceptable for the ICC to have an opinion on the events that have unfolded in the Gaza strip and accor…
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You don't even have to talk about genocide given that Israel (as you also state) has clearly committed war crimes and crimes against humanity in its war against Hamas. Its entirely in keeping with the ICC aims that an arrest warrant has been issued for both Yahya Siwar (now deceased) and Benjamin Netanyahu.
Given Donald Trump's bizarre demand that the Europe re-arm itself (which imho is terribly short-sighted and might make US foreign policy more tricky in the future), I imagine in the future we will see more instances where Europe tries to gain a ROI on its military spending and becomes more assertive in the future. Right now, it can be politically difficult for European countries to respect the warrants (as seen most recently with Netanyahu's trip to Poland) but in the future that could change.