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Postgres IDE in VS Code

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Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#341

Post by pjmlp »

Alupis wrote: post #266
ahartmetz wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the closed extensions situation, the open source part feels insincere. Sort of like a free plan up to 10 users and then pretty expensive situation. The purpose isn't the free plan, it's just an advertising measure to get people to where you really benefit eventually.

I recently called this (and other Microsoft behavior) out as being "fake" open source. The comment was highly controversial with quite a battle of up and down votes - so clearly not everyone agrees. In my opinion, Microsoft wants the good vibes and PR that comes with open source, but they don't actually want to be open source. Its why many people still don't trust them in this arena.

Like Android for example?

Yes, Microsoft has an history, yet it isn't as if there is any big corporation doing full open source across all their products, the large majority only does the part that somehow brings good vibes, cuts down their own R&D costs, or is a kind of suble way to find out about possible new employees.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#342

Post by petepete »

tomnipotent wrote: post #289
petepete wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still miss the tool it replaced, SQL Query Analyzer/Profiler. To this day it's my favourite SQL 'IDE'. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/msdn-magazine/2005...

Those features/tools are still part of SSMS today.

Yeah, it's specifically the old applications I miss.

They were really well designed, incredibly snappy and responsive. When SSMS was launched it was really slow and clunky on my computer.

I switched to Postgres around that time so I'm 20 years out of touch at this point.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#343

Post by pjmlp »

epolanski wrote: post #223
dist-epoch wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where you were supposed to move to Visual Studio after you became a real dev It was never marketed like that, for the simple reason that popular VSCode languages like Python/HTML/Javascript were never well supported by regular Visual Studio, so there is no way to move to "proper" Visual Studio if you do Python/web development.

VS could do web okay 5 years ago, haven't run it since.

It still does when Web == .NET Web, and way better than VSCode at it.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#344

Post by pjmlp »

deepsun wrote: post #210

Graphical schema image generation was in IntelliJ for like 15 years at least? Since the times with all the craze about UML "disrupting" software engineering.

Graphical schema image generation was already a thing in 1990's Windows IDEs for databases.

People have to stop pretending there were no IDEs before IntelliJ .

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#345

Post by pjmlp »

deepsun wrote: post #265
robertlagrant wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UML was the late 90s! Rational Rose[0] was the glorious future of class design. Draw the diagram and let the juniors fill in the methods. [0] affectionately Crashional Rose

I was a junior back then, and was afraid to speak up that Rational Rose is just a waste of time. Don't you dare say that about LLMs!

No worries, nowadays we have Enterprise Architect

https://www.sparxsystems.eu/

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#346

Post by int_19h »

schrodinger wrote: post #316
cerved wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm more confused why the version control of the thing using the database is including the entire schema of the database in it's repository

The database schema of an app is tightly coupled enough to essentially be code, and migrations are also probably checked in. This lets you see how the db schema changes over time -- likely along with the queries using the schema.

This is only true when your app is the only thing that is using the database. In enterprise environments, databases are frequently shared between many different apps.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#347

Post by int_19h »

bigfatkitten wrote: post #323
wredcoll wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "works" for about as long as you have <10 employees and <3 customers or so. After that the railsapp doesn't get to be the sole owner of the db.

Providing access to other services is what APIs are for. Jeff Bezos famously said[1] that anyone who does otherwise should be fired, and I agree. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18916406

SQL is also an API.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#348

Post by int_19h »

sbarre wrote: post #295
wredcoll wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "works" for about as long as you have <10 employees and <3 customers or so. After that the railsapp doesn't get to be the sole owner of the db.

Do you have multiple separate apps that can change a shared DB schema? How do you keep that all in sync across your apps?

In situations like these, the database admins are the ones responsible for the schema; the apps are mere users.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#349

Post by edg5000 »

pjmlp wrote: post #84
Toritori12 wrote: post #64

I wonder what is the most "valuable" IDE right now for MS. A few years ago VsCode was marketed essentially as "Visual studio for beginners", where you were supposed to move to Visual Studio after you became a real dev, but since then VSCode has been growing and growing and stands now as the most used "IDE", where Visual Studio is mostly seen as "legacy" (oversimplification, great IDE for CPP and .NET but still...).

Monetarily, Visual Studio. There are tons of enterprise development workflows, and plugins, that probably will never be ported into VSCode, from their .NET and COM implementations. Now in terms of mindshare, and gateway drug into Microsoft ecosystem, definitely VSCode. It is also the best Web IDE, for the return of timesharing development, sorry cloud. That alone means everyone that is on Github and Azure, gets to us…

VS Code is a downgrade from open source to freeware. At least the C++ plugin is freeware. And they block access to the extension store from any fork (self-compiling VS code is also considered a fork). So if you are an OSS purist, VS is bad. Other than that it's effing great.

Re: Postgres IDE in VS Code

#350

Post by edg5000 »

kstrauser wrote: post #217
dmurray wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a dev on the project and consider yourself authorized to speak on behalf of the project, on a legal matter, on Hacker News. Are you authorized to do the same on a blog hosted on microsoft.com? A lot of people would treat that as authoritative even if bigger enterprises will wait for the shrink-wrap to be updated.

Solid point. That would be a "promissory estoppel" defense if MS changed their mind and decided to run amok with this. Good: "Your honor, here's a copy of their official blog where they said the license terms are a temporary glitch but that we're fully allowed and encouraged to use the product." Not good: "Your honor, an anonymous new account on Hacker News said it's totally fine to use this even though the license f…

Not an MS fan, but you guys rock for making VS Code, really changed software development for me. Especially combined with good language servers (Redhat for Java, intelliphense for PHP, Clangd for C/C++, and some python stuff). Yay! Sure, Eclipse could do it, but things like search, which I do a 1000 times a day, really benefits from good UI design choices. It simply speeds up the work massively.
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