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Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#341

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

jader201 wrote: post #181
EcommerceFlow wrote: post #167

If you haven't watched Tim Sweeney's appearance on Lex Fridman (which went live two days ago ironically), he discusses this battle against Apple, which he's maintained at a furious pace for years. He goes into detail on how the previous guidelines stifle innovation, how app developers are basically forced to implement anti-consumer practices to maintain the ridiculous costs of achieving success on the app store, etc.…

> No gambling, no randomized loot boxes, etc. > So I give Tim a lot of credit for maintaining such a principled stance. IMO, someone that drives and capitalizes on addictive spending by an underage audience should never be considered principled. While it may not be considered gambling, it’s not much better when it’s often out of control due to feeding on FOMO.

What about a company that controls exclusive access to this "addictive spending by an underage audience" on the computers they sell, _after purchase_, for a 24% cut of the spoils.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#342

Post by cedws »

EcommerceFlow wrote: post #167

If you haven't watched Tim Sweeney's appearance on Lex Fridman (which went live two days ago ironically), he discusses this battle against Apple, which he's maintained at a furious pace for years. He goes into detail on how the previous guidelines stifle innovation, how app developers are basically forced to implement anti-consumer practices to maintain the ridiculous costs of achieving success on the app store, etc.…

The business model is still getting kids hooked on digital crack and getting them to beg their parents for money. He’s no saint either.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#343

Post by mvdtnz »

reylas wrote: post #261

So, what keeps all app developers from charging 0 to "buy" the app from the store, then nickel and dime the user inside the app? This really feels like the beginning of things way worse.

Competition keeps app developers from behaving badly.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#344

Post by JustExAWS »

protimewaster wrote: post #302
JustExAWS wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name one platform or even retail physical goods store that has less than a 15% markup from the wholesale price?

As I said, my point is just that it's not something I should be obligated to pay for. But, if you're looking for counterexamples to show it can be done for less than a 15% cut, they're around. Almost every eBay category charges less than 15%, for example. And, as another user pointed out, Epic takes less than 15%. AliExpress charges 5-8% on average. Etsy is I think something like 6.5%.

Etsy charges 6.5% transaction fee + 3% payment processing fee + a flat $0.25 fee per transaction. That would end up being more than 15% for most Apple purchases of $1-$3.

eBay charges a final value fee of 12.9% and $.30 - $0.40 flat fee per order. And you pay a fee for international orders.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#345

Post by JustExAWS »

AlexandrB wrote: post #129
JustExAWS wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name one platform or even retail physical goods store that has less than a 15% markup from the wholesale price?

Why is a middleman required at all? Epic seems happy to process their own payments - they don't need a "platform" to do it for them.

Epic tried side loading on Android and not use Google Play. That ended up being a horrible financial disaster and a security nightmare. https://www.mcafee.com/blogs/mobile-security/fornite-android...

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#346

Post by HDThoreaun »

duped wrote: post #305
EcommerceFlow wrote: post #167

If you haven't watched Tim Sweeney's appearance on Lex Fridman (which went live two days ago ironically), he discusses this battle against Apple, which he's maintained at a furious pace for years. He goes into detail on how the previous guidelines stifle innovation, how app developers are basically forced to implement anti-consumer practices to maintain the ridiculous costs of achieving success on the app store, etc.…

The only reason he is fighting Apple's monopoly on IAP is because he wants to ship the Epic store on mobile devices so he can make his 12% cut off exclusive titles. Now is that better than the Apple store? Sure! But the real problem is that users can't install their own games without going through an arbiter like Epic or Apple.

If the epic store is allowed to exist apple would be forced to allow any App Store onto their platform.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#347

Post by HDThoreaun »

candiddevmike wrote: post #119
zackify wrote: post #112

Crazy. I thought hackernews didn’t care because this happened yesterday and I never saw anything! We’re updating our app in a couple days this will save a LOT of money. We will kick users out to web and pass a JWT in the url with a short lifespan to log the user in on web and then prompt for Apple Pay or credit card. Then a link back to our app’s deep link

So many questions: - Why not just handle all of this in the app? Do you think Apple won't allow it? - Are you geofencing this functionality? It seems like per other comments this is US only. - How are you handling existing subscribers (not sure if applicable)? Will you "encourage" them to migrate?

If you pay for something in the app apple gets 30% of that money. If you send users to your website to pay you get to keep it all now that the 27% fee was found illegal.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#348

Post by dns_snek »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #216
brutal_chaos_ wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good enough is how everything went to shit (enshitification). "It's an MVP? Good enough, ship it and bolt on features no one wants." Personally, I am very tired of "good enough." I wish we built great things.

"Enshitification" is probably the most self-sabotaging term we could think of; in terms of how it makes us look like whining teenagers. I will never use it in polite conversation; which would ironically be a tech company's greatest goal for if we had a word. But optics aside, this also ignores the problem that many of these businesses were not sustainable and were never sustainable . They are heading downhill, partia…

> No, we lit billions on fire as an investment to keep it free and grow market share

This is a form of price dumping and it should be illegal. Actually I'm confused as to why this isn't considered to be illegal already becuase I thought we had laws against this.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#349

Post by owebmaster »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #123
arghwhat wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bloated and overcomplicated are design issues, not technology issues. Plenty of native apps are bloated and overcomplicated. Making good apps is hard.

> Bloated and overcomplicated are design issues, not technology issues. No, it's very much a technology issue. The overhead just for shipping an entire webbrowser with your app is insane. Building a decent UI in HTML/CSS which were never designed for that purpose, is an absolute disaster. HTML and CSS are for formatting text documents, not for designing user interfaces. There is a reason that there is a framework-of-…

> The whole 'webapp' thing exists solely on the false promise of cost savings

Tell me you know nothing about security without tell me you know nothing about security. Desktop software is a nightmare... and they can still be as bloated as the most bloated webapp.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#350

Post by owebmaster »

revskill wrote: post #59
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How times have changed. They really haven't. 'Web apps' are terrible, both from an end-user and developer perspective. They are a bloated, overcomplicated mess.

Dom api is too low level for application.

Use lit-html (3kb minified)
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