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LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

librelingo.app

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Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#341

Post by sehansen »

Alex-Programs wrote: post #259
sieve wrote: post #241

As someone who knows four languages[1] (picked every single one up during childhood) and is currently learning Sanskrit, I have to say that Krashen's input hypothesis and Orberg's Lingva Latina is probably the way to go if you are learning languages as an adult. The direct teaching method works but is time-consuming and generally used for languages that lead to an occupation, viz. English. The grammar translation met…

I built a tool[0] that gives you constant input at your level as you browse the web, so you don't need to take time out of your day. You can just learn a little as you browse, and let it compound over time. It works by estimating the difficulty of English sentences, then translating ones at your level into your target language. [0] https://nuenki.app

Cool idea, unfortunately the example on the front page has errors in both Danish and French.

In Danish the third line is translated as "Du kan vende tilbage til oversættelser ved at holde musen over dem." which means "You can return to translations by hovering over them." i.e. the opposite of what happens. As a native Danish speaker I'd write "Du kan vende tilbage til originalerne ved at holde musen over dem.". I've had a hard time finding a translation that more accurately matches the wording of the original. The best I could come up with is "Du kan reversere oversættelserne ved at holde musen over dem.", but that just sounds like you're speaking English with Danish words to me, so I don't know if it's useful.

In French the second line is translated as "Plus la difficulté augmente, plus la traduction est importante" which means "As the difficulty increases, translation becomes more important.". Kagi Translate proposes "Plus la difficulté augmente, le volume de traduction augmente" and a few other things that don't look quite right to me.

I don't know how much this matters, since you'd probably end up exposed to a lot of different translations of many different sentences with this tool. Statistically, most of those will be correct and so you'll end up good enough understanding of the other language anyway.

In any case, you'd probably want to make extra sure that the examples on the front page are absolutely correct, so I hope you find my two corrections useful.

Oh! One more thing... when you select Japanese it says "Supports Furigana", but there's no furigana shown in the example. It would've been cool to see that on the example page as well.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#342

Post by jcul »

detectivestory wrote: post #77
simonbarker87 wrote: post #12

Going to plug Language Transfer again, an excellent free app that is a much better way to learn a language than the DuoLingo approach.

I find LT great for "learning the language", but I find something like Spanish After Hours on Youtube to be far better for "learning to speak and understand the spoken language". I would recommend that everyone at least dips into something like LT every now and then, but I think something like SAH is better for daily exercises.

Spanish after hours looks great, thanks.

Do you just watch / listen to random videos or is it more structured?

I am planning a trip to Mexico soon, so I have been listening to how to Spanish, and mextalki podcasts. The latter is pretty difficult to follow, though I feel you need to listen to real native speakers speaking at a normal pace to have any chance of understanding locals.

SAH seems great because she does seem to speak normally and not too slowed down (or it just sounds quick to me :))

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#343

Post by Alex-Programs »

foolinaround wrote: post #322
Alex-Programs wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I built a tool[0] that gives you constant input at your level as you browse the web, so you don't need to take time out of your day. You can just learn a little as you browse, and let it compound over time. It works by estimating the difficulty of English sentences, then translating ones at your level into your target language. [0] https://nuenki.app

this tool is really nice... Suggestions: Can I get some transliteration when I hover over it, rather than translation? Maybe a Alt+ ?

You can get definitions when you hover, but it depends on the language - it uses Wiktionary.

For some languages it's available but disabled by default. You can change it in the extension popup under "Hover Behaviour".

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#344

Post by Alex-Programs »

sehansen wrote: post #341
Alex-Programs wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I built a tool[0] that gives you constant input at your level as you browse the web, so you don't need to take time out of your day. You can just learn a little as you browse, and let it compound over time. It works by estimating the difficulty of English sentences, then translating ones at your level into your target language. [0] https://nuenki.app

Cool idea, unfortunately the example on the front page has errors in both Danish and French. In Danish the third line is translated as "Du kan vende tilbage til oversættelser ved at holde musen over dem." which means "You can return to translations by hovering over them." i.e. the opposite of what happens. As a native Danish speaker I'd write "Du kan vende tilbage til originalerne ved at holde musen over dem.". I've…

Thanks for letting me know. The front page items are translated with DeepL, which is used for text that's currently visible. My benchmark claims that it's actually pretty good at French (I haven't got data for Danish) - one of the reasons I'm currently remaking it!

I hadn't heard of Kagi Translate; I'll add it to the benchmarking I do. And I'll see about adding Furigana there.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#345

Post by arghwhat »

dingnuts wrote: post #169
ryandrake wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe “immersion” works if you already know the language and are going for fluency, but I don’t see how it can get you from zero to one. I’ve tried as an adult and failed to learn my wife’s native language and no amount of “input” at any speed or level helps. It just washes over me and I don’t understand anything.

I'm like three days from my one year Duo streak. I've gone from understanding none of my wife's native language to being able to eavesdrop on phone conversations a bit, and to have short exchanges. I've probably spent half an hour daily on average. Sometimes a lot more. I had no prior exposure. This website is weird, the comments never reflect reality for me on any topic.

I don't think your experience here is weird - just seems like you had a good environment for practicing a bit with your wife, which I think is more important than any other aspect of the learning methodology. Now, nitpickers might argue that "better" methods would have achieved much more in less time, but eh.

Try to force some more exchanges with your wife. Make a day of the week the day you only speak her language (for at least a few hours, but don't give up from the frustration when vocabulary runs short - keep it going even if you need to point and sign).

Doubles as a silly/fun couples activity.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#347

Post by bhasi »

sieve wrote: post #289
primitivesuave wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned Sanskrit by translating the Bhagavad Gita ( https://gita.pub ), and I experienced a similar jump in comprehension to what you described. At first I needed to look up every word, even the ones I'd seen many times, but eventually (after many many repetitions) I finally started having an intuitive idea of what the words and sounds meant. It certainly makes you appreciate the unbroken oral tradition by which th…

I have seen some people do this successfully. But I find the BG to be too complex as a learning tool. It is too dense for me to concentrate on the words rather than the content. I prefer short stories. I have acquired hundreds of laghukathā collections over the last couple of years and read from them as time permits. I am working on two Sanskrit-related things at the moment: - a website where I am putting up proof-re…

The Valmiki Ramayanam is a much more accessible document than the Gita to learn Sanskrit from as an advanced learner after completing the basics. There's the aspect of a story that unfolds progressively which is nice and engaging, as opposed to the deep metaphysical stuff in the Gita.

The first section of the Ramayanam is the Sankshepa Ramayanam, or, the Ramayanam in summary. This gives the outline of the whole story which then is expounded in detail in the subsequent sections.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#348

Post by sieve »

bhasi wrote: post #347
sieve wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen some people do this successfully. But I find the BG to be too complex as a learning tool. It is too dense for me to concentrate on the words rather than the content. I prefer short stories. I have acquired hundreds of laghukathā collections over the last couple of years and read from them as time permits. I am working on two Sanskrit-related things at the moment: - a website where I am putting up proof-re…

The Valmiki Ramayanam is a much more accessible document than the Gita to learn Sanskrit from as an advanced learner after completing the basics. There's the aspect of a story that unfolds progressively which is nice and engaging, as opposed to the deep metaphysical stuff in the Gita. The first section of the Ramayanam is the Sankshepa Ramayanam , or, the Ramayanam in summary. This gives the outline of the whole stor…

What sounds nice, and works, in poetry may not work when narrated in prose.

So, I am avoiding the first four sargas of the Balakanda entirely in my guide. The story starts with a description of Ayodhya and then moves on to Dasharatha and his family. I want to keep things simple and linear so that the story has momentum and readers feel like continuing the story.

I will have to find a way to incorporate all the side stories without damaging the momentum. Will probably add them as "side quests" at the appropriate juncture.

> after completing the basics

I have to disagree here. Best to jump in directly using glosses (will start with an English one. Might add a Hindi one at a future date). This fetish for basics is a big hurdle that I have personally experienced.

You will never be confident enough to start reading the Ramayana no matter how much you study the language because it is a game of vocabulary.

You need vocabulary to understand things. And the only way to acquire vocabulary is to read a lot.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#349

Post by bhasi »

sieve wrote: post #348
bhasi wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Valmiki Ramayanam is a much more accessible document than the Gita to learn Sanskrit from as an advanced learner after completing the basics. There's the aspect of a story that unfolds progressively which is nice and engaging, as opposed to the deep metaphysical stuff in the Gita. The first section of the Ramayanam is the Sankshepa Ramayanam , or, the Ramayanam in summary. This gives the outline of the whole stor…

What sounds nice, and works, in poetry may not work when narrated in prose. So, I am avoiding the first four sargas of the Balakanda entirely in my guide. The story starts with a description of Ayodhya and then moves on to Dasharatha and his family. I want to keep things simple and linear so that the story has momentum and readers feel like continuing the story. I will have to find a way to incorporate all the side s…

In my experience of having learnt Sanskrit via what I now realize is the comprehensive input method (thank you for introducing that term to me via your comments on this thread), I absolutely think that the "basics" - enough to recognize the seven (eight if you count the sambodhana) vibhaktis (declensions) and the simple past, present, future and the subjunctive tenses - are required in order to get past the huge roadblock of parsing a word.

Once parsed, I can look up the meaning of the word on ashtadhyayi.com or elsewhere, but not before.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#350

Post by sieve »

bhasi wrote: post #349
sieve wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sounds nice, and works, in poetry may not work when narrated in prose. So, I am avoiding the first four sargas of the Balakanda entirely in my guide. The story starts with a description of Ayodhya and then moves on to Dasharatha and his family. I want to keep things simple and linear so that the story has momentum and readers feel like continuing the story. I will have to find a way to incorporate all the side s…

In my experience of having learnt Sanskrit via what I now realize is the comprehensive input method (thank you for introducing that term to me via your comments on this thread), I absolutely think that the "basics" - enough to recognize the seven (eight if you count the sambodhana ) vibhaktis (declensions) and the simple past, present, future and the subjunctive tenses - are required in order to get past the huge roa…

Sanskrit grammar is complicated enough for basic knowledge of the cases and the tenses/aspects/moods to be less useful than one would otherwise assume. You have sati-saptami prayogas, krdantas are often uses as adjectives while basic text books talk about them in limited contexts. It is a huge mess.

Take this story (https://www.adhyeta.org.in/sa/k/samskrita-chandamama/198404/...). Assume you have a gloss available for some words. Do you really need to know the pratyayas for the nouns and verbs for you to be able to understand the story?

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