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U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

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Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#341

Post by throw16180339 »

nailer wrote: post #339
ModernMech wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally I agree but Godwin's law is officially suspended the moment they threw a Nazi salute. Regardless, Godwin's Law is a thought terminating cliche, which is shielding us from the truth. The person you responded to wasn't calling them Nazis (although I am), they were asking you to engage in a hypothetical to try to make sense of a problematic issue: for 70 years since the Holocaust we have heard the slogan "never…

> is officially suspended the moment they threw a Nazi salute. But they didn't. You know that. Unless you think Tim Waltz, AOC and everyone else who did that is a Nazi. I bet you don't.

White supremacists worldwide recognized it as a Nazi salute (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250121-musk-salute-a...).

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#342

Post by nailer »

throw16180339 wrote: post #341
nailer wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is officially suspended the moment they threw a Nazi salute. But they didn't. You know that. Unless you think Tim Waltz, AOC and everyone else who did that is a Nazi. I bet you don't.

White supremacists worldwide recognized it as a Nazi salute ( https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250121-musk-salute-a... ).

[flagged]

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#343

Post by ModernMech »

nailer wrote: post #338
ModernMech wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm thinking specifically about the student that was abducted off the street and terrorized. But you bring up another good example of immigrant cruelty. I'm aware of the context you mention, but that doesn't change the fact that with what they're doing, they are highlighting and putting on full display the level of cruelty they are willing to engage in as they wield power. It's only a matter of time before that l…

> that was abducted off the street and terrorized I bet that didn't happen. Someone on a visa probably waved a Hamas flag or told people how they can support Hamas and then had their visa appropriately yanked. I have no idea, I just know BS when I read it. Edit: oh you're the same person from the other thread. Figures.

So worse than seeing edited news, you're not even seeing the news at all.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#344

Post by ModernMech »

nailer wrote: post #337
ModernMech wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is a definition, not a tautology... we will argue over the definition of definition. We shall. Given your circular definition of profound autism, what I had said is a tautology. And that's my point, the way you've defined this thing doesn't make logical sense. A shame to bow out on a semantic quibble, I made a number of substantive points I'll that I guess will have to remain unanswered. At the end of the day…

> Given your circular definition of profound autism No. It's not circular. Matching a name to a value and then saying that value has that name isn't a tautology. We're on a forum for programmers, if you work in this industry you do it all the time. I'd hoped by discussing shared values we'd end civilly but I guess not.

How have I been uncivil to you? I have not called you names, nor have I engaged your arguments in bad faith, nor have I attacked your character, your reputation, nor impugned you in any way. I've done nothing but engage you civilly.

And it is circular because you still haven't given a definition for "profound autism" -- all you have said is that "profound autism" is autism that profoundly disables a person. But what does that mean? Because all autism is profoundly disabling if you ask autistic people.

How does one go about determining if an autistic person is "profoundly" disabled? What's the test? What's the measure? How disabled can one be before they are considered not just regularly disabled, but "profoundly" disabled?

You've already said "you would say someone who headbangs has profound autism" but I headbang, and most people are surprised to learn I'm autistic. So I shouldn't be someone RFK is referring to in his speech, but according to the symptoms he lists off and your apparent concurrence here, I am someone he would be talking about.

Which brings me back to my original point: he was not clear at all in his speech.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#345

Post by ModernMech »

nailer wrote: post #339
ModernMech wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally I agree but Godwin's law is officially suspended the moment they threw a Nazi salute. Regardless, Godwin's Law is a thought terminating cliche, which is shielding us from the truth. The person you responded to wasn't calling them Nazis (although I am), they were asking you to engage in a hypothetical to try to make sense of a problematic issue: for 70 years since the Holocaust we have heard the slogan "never…

> is officially suspended the moment they threw a Nazi salute. But they didn't. You know that. Unless you think Tim Waltz, AOC and everyone else who did that is a Nazi. I bet you don't.

Here's a video of Musk doing the same gesture as a group of avowed neo Nazis:

https://www.fastcompany.com/91266228/musk-roman-salute-histo...

That's a practiced and very intentional Nazi salute, don't tell me otherwise. He put his back foot into that.

Like I said, if a person does that salute, Godwin goes out the window and it's time to presume they are a Nazi until proven otherwise.

> Unless you think Tim Waltz, AOC and everyone else who did that is a Nazi.

Do you have video that shows the same thing as the link I provided? I bet you don't.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#346

Post by nailer »

ModernMech wrote: post #344
nailer wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given your circular definition of profound autism No. It's not circular. Matching a name to a value and then saying that value has that name isn't a tautology. We're on a forum for programmers, if you work in this industry you do it all the time. I'd hoped by discussing shared values we'd end civilly but I guess not.

How have I been uncivil to you? I have not called you names, nor have I engaged your arguments in bad faith, nor have I attacked your character, your reputation, nor impugned you in any way. I've done nothing but engage you civilly. And it is circular because you still haven't given a definition for "profound autism" -- all you have said is that "profound autism" is autism that profoundly disables a person. But what…

The lack of civility I feel is that you’re either not reading what I write before replying or not feeling the need to address the points in the comment you’re replying to.

You’re right there is a spectrum of abilities and this changes over time. However we can define a threshold. I think a self-harming stim as an adult like head banging is sufficient to qualify as profound.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#347

Post by nailer »

ModernMech wrote: post #343
nailer wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that was abducted off the street and terrorized I bet that didn't happen. Someone on a visa probably waved a Hamas flag or told people how they can support Hamas and then had their visa appropriately yanked. I have no idea, I just know BS when I read it. Edit: oh you're the same person from the other thread. Figures.

So worse than seeing edited news, you're not even seeing the news at all.

No. I see so many cases of people falsely claiming people were kidnapped and didn’t violate the terms of their visas I see the pattern.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#348

Post by nailer »

ModernMech wrote: post #345
nailer wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is officially suspended the moment they threw a Nazi salute. But they didn't. You know that. Unless you think Tim Waltz, AOC and everyone else who did that is a Nazi. I bet you don't.

Here's a video of Musk doing the same gesture as a group of avowed neo Nazis: https://www.fastcompany.com/91266228/musk-roman-salute-histo... That's a practiced and very intentional Nazi salute, don't tell me otherwise. He put his back foot into that. Like I said, if a person does that salute, Godwin goes out the window and it's time to presume they are a Nazi until proven otherwise. > Unless you think Tim Waltz, AOC…

[flagged]

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#349

Post by theartfuldodger »

watwut wrote: post #263
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is it is the autists, who don't respond well to emotional appeals. Is that all it is? That it is harder to influence high functioning ones?

Was he ever diagnozed? Because all his success is charizma and social skills based. This claim appears only when he needs to be excused. Also, it is super possible to be a harmful asshole and autist at the same time. Musk also do not care about morals, ethics or laws based appeals.

He said he had Asbergers in 2021 on SNL. There is no reason any further detail would be public.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#350

Post by theartfuldodger »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #200
brightball wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really wasn’t any sort of “takedown”. It was the same stuff people have been saying on the internet for years that’s disconnected from what is reality for so many parents.

It absolutely refuted every inane speculation you made. I understand you clearly aren’t here to listen or change your mind, so it unfortunately passed right over your head.

It didnt, It was a list of wishful thinking. I have more exposure to families with previously called "low functioning as it relates to children, and plenty of adults who are very capable and high functioning.

What I do not see people willing to discuss

Parent getting called to school 3-4x a week, causing issues with work

Child running from school or aide and requiring a tracker program

Police/CPS involvement from "runners"

Destruction of marriage from constant state of stress

Violence to siblings

Inability to give attention equally in the family

Incredible high divorce rates, parents and any non a to a pairing.

RFK's speech had some issues, but if you read the transcript it does not match the sound bytes

All of his references to negative autism behaviors/impacts were in regards to the 25% of profound autism.

As I said, I know at least a dozen families where the above is their experience. Single moms breaking down on FB because they have no support and stressed to the max, Dad losing out on projects and sales because it cant be trusted he'll be in the office when needed. Siblings hiding away, sick of outbursts,yelling, non stop activity.

It is a disservice to all of those people to act as if the spectrum does not have a far range of activities.

That sure as hell doesnt mean we need to start trying to end "autistic people" and I think it is manipulation to say RFK's prevailing theme has ever been "autism", it has been a belief that the weaknesses in our food and drug systems are increasing chronic illnesses, mutations etc. Some headlines travel longer, the AIDS/HIV denial and Faucci hate should have got way more attention.

Its not RFK's words, its the media's practice of hyperbolic language that causes any real or perceived damage to the community.

I dont believe there is a connection to find, but maybe this will end the snipe hunt and that funding can just go towards creating spaces and education that allow for a range of interaction and social styles after September. But to ignore both sides of the experience is disingenous and is certainly a slap in the face to the families experiencing real hardship from their child's divergence.

I am not even a fan, I just despise the lazy characterizations that get slung around in all emotional spaces, he is mostly a careful speaker, especially compared to the norms now.

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