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My 16-month theanine self-experiment

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Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#341

Post by matthewdgreen »

brothrock wrote: post #297
matthewdgreen wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an N=1 trial. Dressing your N=1 trial up with lots of pseudo controls and pseudo blinding and data collection does not make it better. In fact: putting this much effort into any medication trial makes it much more likely that you’re going to be incentivized to find effects that don’t exist. I think it’s nice that the author admits that they found nothing, but statistically, worthless drugs show effects in muc…

N=1 is addressed, see outcome predictions. N=1 comes with caveats, of course, but a study like this, with a proven harmless supplement, should be welcomed and praised. It is clearly a step forward from what you can watch about theanine on YouTube or TikTok. I consider this a work of citizen science. While it should not be taken for more than it is, it’s a great example of how someone can experiment without a high bur…

N=1 studies aren’t evil. They’re just pretty close to the entire history of pre-modern medicine that led us to bad evidence. My concern here is not that someone is sharing their opinions, it’s the fact that the person doing this explicitly heaps derision on the “placebo people” (or some other phrasing) and then heaps praise on other people doing N=1 studies and proceeds to do one. This stuff all needs to be treated with humor, good faith, and then extreme skepticism about any result it produces.

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#342

Post by genewitch »

OutOfHere wrote: post #281
genewitch wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless it's the active D vitamin, it takes weeks to convert it into reserves. Taking vitamin D once, right before bed will do nothing. Our bodies don't use it that way. Cholecalciferol = weeks calcidiol = hours

The conversion period strongly depends on the input dose and on available cofactors. Numerous people have reported that 5000 IU of vitamin D3 can produce energy benefits in just a few hours if one has been skipping taking it. If one is low on cofactors, or takes a low dose of D3, then I imagine it taking days or even longer as you noted.

> After ingestion, cholecalciferol is first converted to calcidiol in the liver, which can take several hours. Then, calcidiol is further converted to calcitriol, the active form, in the kidneys, which may take additional time.

read as if you're perfectly healthy, at minimum it's 24 hours. What you're talking about is probably placebo effect. For reserves to start building up to the point where your body has "enough" calcitriol, it takes weeks

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#343

Post by dwaltrip »

tiborsaas wrote: post #301
Kiro wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what people refer to when they say "jittery effects". I don't feel anything when taking caffeine, no matter the dose. Or I want to think it helps me wake up but the effect is so small that I can't be sure. It's basically just a ritual for me.

I got my teeth whitened and I was forbidden to drink coffee for a week or so. I thought the same that coffee was just a ritual for me, but apparently I got really weird (moody, annoyed easily) when going cold turkey, so I had to go to the pharmacy and buy caffeine tablets :) That settled it for me, that coffee does have and effect on me despite not feeling these "jittery effects" as well.

Part of that is probably withdrawal, I would think.

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#344

Post by levocardia »

robwwilliams wrote: post #221
matthewdgreen wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an N=1 trial. Dressing your N=1 trial up with lots of pseudo controls and pseudo blinding and data collection does not make it better. In fact: putting this much effort into any medication trial makes it much more likely that you’re going to be incentivized to find effects that don’t exist. I think it’s nice that the author admits that they found nothing, but statistically, worthless drugs show effects in muc…

Complete injustice to this lovely study. Why do you say unblinded? Why do you insult a time series study as “dressing up with lots of data”? Would you rather see less data? Or are you volunteering to be test subject #2? Show us how to do it right Dr. M.! In my opinion this is an exemplary N=1 study that is well designed and thoughtfully executed. Deserve accolades, not derision. And the author even recognizes possibl…

Because....

>While I was blinded during each trial, I saw the theanine/D result when I wrote it down. Over time I couldn’t help but notice that my stress dropped even when I took vitamin D, and that I was terrible at predicting what I’d taken

That is not blinding

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#345

Post by MichaelDickens »

AequitasOmnibus wrote: post #6

From the discussions I've seen about theanine, the real benefit supposedly came when it was taken alongside caffeine. The thinking being that theanine moderated some of the jittery effects of caffeine, allowing the user to take higher doses of caffeine, which itself has some benefit on task concentration and focus. I wish the author had spent time addressing that theory specifically.

The author had caffeine "90% of the time", see this comment: https://dynomight.substack.com/p/theanine/comment/98488776

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#346

Post by piombisallow »

grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #260
riedel wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antihistamines could even work without any allergy since they are typically used as mild sleeping aids. They are also used often off-label for stress reduction. [0] [0] https://fherehab.com/learning/surprising-antihistamine-anxie...

I find the steroids even more effective but they seem to exacerbate my anxiety after a few days though. Still haven't figured that out. With regular use antihistamines quite quickly lose their drowsiness effects. But it's definitely a nice side effect for sleeping challenged folks. Azelastine is a second generation antihistamine so not particularly drowsiness inducing. One of the interesting Azelastine quirks, is it'…

Cortisone is the main stress hormone, of course it makes you anxious

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#347

Post by drilbo »

tiborsaas wrote: post #301
Kiro wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what people refer to when they say "jittery effects". I don't feel anything when taking caffeine, no matter the dose. Or I want to think it helps me wake up but the effect is so small that I can't be sure. It's basically just a ritual for me.

I got my teeth whitened and I was forbidden to drink coffee for a week or so. I thought the same that coffee was just a ritual for me, but apparently I got really weird (moody, annoyed easily) when going cold turkey, so I had to go to the pharmacy and buy caffeine tablets :) That settled it for me, that coffee does have and effect on me despite not feeling these "jittery effects" as well.

experiencing withdrawal symptoms seems to me quite different than regular use having a positive benefit

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#348

Post by IggleSniggle »

cluckindan wrote: post #71
dylan604 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also look at other ingredients in teas as a knock on effect vs straight supplement extracts. Sometimes the extract as a supplement isn’t the same once separated from the rest of the plant it’s found.

How about other ingredients in coffee?

One obvious one to consider is the diterpenes in filtered vs unfiltered brewing methods. Filtered methods will remove most of these. Diterpenes will help reduce inflammation and may enhance the flavor of the coffee for some, but the ones in coffee are unfortunately also linked to increased LDL (bad cholesterol), so as a drug choice, there's not a clear winner in whether filtered or unfiltered coffee (as in French press, for example), will result in a better black coffee.

From my own anecdotal experience, lower inflammation has a wide variety of cognitive benefits, regardless of the means, while things that increase my inflammatory response (for example, allergies), make it much harder to think clearly.

Side notes: I don't drink milk so can't speak to the lipids that might further influence intake. But even the heat of coffee will have an effect: if it's scalding hot, some of the caffeine will be absorbed in the mouth, and if it's very cold, it'll wind its way further through your system before being absorbed.

I'm just a coffee drinker, so take all of this information with a grain of salt, unless your sodium is too high? Caveat emptor

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#349

Post by abirch »

grafmax wrote: post #259
robwwilliams wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete injustice to this lovely study. Why do you say unblinded? Why do you insult a time series study as “dressing up with lots of data”? Would you rather see less data? Or are you volunteering to be test subject #2? Show us how to do it right Dr. M.! In my opinion this is an exemplary N=1 study that is well designed and thoughtfully executed. Deserve accolades, not derision. And the author even recognizes possibl…

I think social media discussions of science would be better informed by the concept of a ‘hierarchy of evidence’. Anecdotal data, n=1 trials of varying quality, correlations studies, double blind studies (with small and large cohorts), studies without attempted replication and studies with heavy replication - they are all provide evidence of varying quality and can inform the holistic scientific picture. They can all…

Here’s a relevant xkcd https://xkcd.com/882/ For the small sample

Re: My 16-month theanine self-experiment

#350

Post by yard2010 »

grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #293
amelius wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prolonged use can lead to increased tolerance, reduced effectiveness, and potential side effects. https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/should-i-worry-... > Theoretically, these drugs might increase the risk of dementia by blocking a particular brain neurotransmitter or increasing brain inflammation. In the past decade, several studies have suggested that these pills might increase the risk of dementia, whil…

Only Anticholinergic drugs appear to be associated dementia (but as noted the evidence is very weak). Older first generation antihistamines such as Diphenhydramine (Benadryl), Doxylamine (Nyquil) have substantial Anticholinergic activity. A lot of the second generation antihistamines have no significant Anticholinergic activity, eg. Azelastine. Benadryl and Nyquil are terrible drugs. Why they haven't been phased out…

Correct me if I'm wrong, desloratadine won't pass the BBB so I guess it shouldn't cause dementia
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