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The Demoralization is just Beginning

geohot.github.io

341–350 of 812 posts

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#341

I prefer my economic takes from economists, or people who actually study these things. -there is more to an economy than manufacturing. Using manufacturing metrics to rate an economy is like scoring a soccer game based on how far your players run: in some contexts correlated with “winning” but in others it’s not. -gold is not a good currency or basis for monetary policy. -these ideas only sound self consistent withou…

> But solution point 1 — brain drain the rest of the world — is an absolutely first rate policy. The fact that the US requires newly-minted PhDs educated here to get a different visa or leave is absolutely self-defeating. We should be welcoming skilled immigration from everywhere. At what quantile of an R1 does graduate education become something other than a visa scam? What domestic student is going to toil for year…

>What domestic student is going to toil for years for poverty-level wages?

Do you want entire swathes of the country to have no exposure to higher education personnel?

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#342

> The main product made by the US is the dollar, and it used those manufactured dollars to outsource everything. Most jobs in the US are now basically fake These two hot takes at the top of the essay really undermines everything else the author might say in the article and brings into question how serious and critical their thinking is. Several comments here against the article talk about the Chinese economy problems…

This is near certainly part of a new groundwork being laid for a later misinfo campaign.

It’s wrong in so many ways, that it actively reverses reality.

I believe the core payload is the idea that America was already fading, and that it was in decline agains China / Asia.

My suspicion is the goal is to kill the idea of dynamism, feed off of the malaise people are feeling.

The intellectual payload is simply a barb for the emotional payload to be distributed.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#343

I prefer my economic takes from economists, or people who actually study these things. -there is more to an economy than manufacturing. Using manufacturing metrics to rate an economy is like scoring a soccer game based on how far your players run: in some contexts correlated with “winning” but in others it’s not. -gold is not a good currency or basis for monetary policy. -these ideas only sound self consistent withou…

> like scoring a soccer game based on how far your players run That’s a pretty good analogy for what GDP is counting, actually. But I think the larger point is that manufacturing is grounded in something real. It’s a measure of how many tanks and fighter jets you can make, no matter how much they cost to make.

Makes me wonder, if anybody knows how economies were measured in more socialist countries before the 80s. Did they take other factors into account since a lot of things were shared (based on a documentary about east germany, people used a lot more social services, places, parks, libraries, and exchanged stuff without paying).

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#344

I prefer my economic takes from economists, or people who actually study these things. -there is more to an economy than manufacturing. Using manufacturing metrics to rate an economy is like scoring a soccer game based on how far your players run: in some contexts correlated with “winning” but in others it’s not. -gold is not a good currency or basis for monetary policy. -these ideas only sound self consistent withou…

> I prefer my economic takes from economists, or people who actually study these things. hows that going? economists have been giving advice to policymakers for decades, and we have a widening gap between the haves and the have nots, society increasingly in debt, etc. Maybe economists have it wrong.

Most of those economists are political propagandists first and academics second. Unfortunately, there is no way of avoiding politics so all work gets tainted. If psychology has a reproducible crisis, economics has an integrity crisis.

To be clear, I am talking about the ones who get the limelight, no all of them, in general.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monetary policy is a form of central planning. Central planning suffers from several issues, primarily due to insufficient ability to model the economy in a way that can reliably make valid predictions, but also due to being a single point of failure due to either incompetence or capture. Speculation bubbles seem to be the main cause of economic collapses prior to centralized currency. Could we perhaps address that i…

And the gold standard isn’t? As someone said elsewhere - a working knowledge of economic history is crucial to be a part of this discussion.

The gold standard is also central planning. But, where the heck did I say anything about the gold standard?

I’m referring to private banks issuing receipts for metal deposits, which can be freely sold or traded. This is the origin of currency, no? The exchange rate between everything and everything else naturally floats in such a system, so there is no central planning.

> a working knowledge of economic history is crucial to be a part of this discussion

Here, let me get you a towel for that egg on your face, rude sir.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was. Was the brain drain destination #1. It's been Europe, India and SE Asia for a while now. Not everyone with a brain just wants more money. Some want to do interesting research that doesn't have a short term commercialisation strategy.

Do you have the statistics to back this up?

Do you have the statistics to back up the opposite argument ?

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#347
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has major structural weaknesses in its economy that are currently overshadowed by the US cr*pping its own and its allies’ pants. Specifically: there is not much of a home grown consumer economy; they have driven growth too heavily on exports and infrastructure build, leading to a massive overhang in building, a housing bubble that is teetering dangerously close to unwinding, and a major shortage of domestic con…

Since the pandemic China on Western TVs is about to "collapse". However, what I saw is new EVs, new Phones, record high exports, record high solar panels installations, new metros/airports etc... Something must be very wrong in your assessment, right?

[deleted]

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, the economy just is . It has no purpose, other than what it does[0]. It's not like anyone designed it, or has any control over it. Some people are in position to make adjustments, nudge some aspect of it towards a desired goal or away from undesirable one, but there's only so much they can do - it's all strongly path-dependent. Put another way, the shape of the economy is just an exercise of descending down…

Many countries in the former soviet block would very much contradict this take. Entire economies were indeed planned and designed, and their shape was controlled and changed at will. Individuals and groups had control, and did do major changes, including but not limited to forced resettlement and labor camps. You can of course argue that this ended almost universally in failures, but people did try, and the amount of…

I don't disagree - in fact, this is a great study. It shows both just how much it takes to have any noticeable, direct control over the economy, and also how little it amounts to anyway.

Specifically, to have this level of control, you basically have to go full-totalitarian and rule with iron fist, and sustain this rule even as The Economy pushes back, in form of unrest, civil war, revolutions, military coups, as well as sabotage or direct attack by foreign forces. Yes, all this is part of the economy too. And, if you somehow manage to keep control in spite of all that, you'll quickly see the rest of the world, with its uncontrolled economy, zip past you in terms of wealth and power, and find yourself at its mercy.

Fundamentally, people want to trade; they both need this to survive and want it to improve their lot. If you make trade hard for them, they'll invent workarounds - alternate currencies (see e.g. use of dollar in the soviet block to work around rationing), barter, smuggling of goods; if you crack down on it, they'll conspire to depose you - and yes, even your military and security personnel, at every level, would like to make the lives of themselves and their families better too. There's only so much blood you can spill before you run out of people to kill, or out of goodwill of people doing the killing. And, as history shows, The Economy will win anyway.

As for sane, free, democratic countries - there's shit all you can do there, as the economy will push back through support of the voters and other politicians, strongly limiting the kind of decisions that are possible to implement. Try to make too big a changes, you'll get sidelined and removed from position of power.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#349
Going back to a gold standard will limit the money supply. This means that there will be less capital for building $thing.

A gold standard means that when the economy gets overheated it pops, then contracts and you get deflation. This makes crashes last longer and harder. It requires greater fiscal discipline to overcome.

The problem with the USA "empire" is that for a trading empire to work you need a plan, and stick to it.

China has been quietly debt trapping a whole bunch of nations that have strategic things they need. They have been investing in infra and leasing it back to the host country. That takes planning, money vision and time. Something neither the president or congress have the ability to do.

The USA in the 40/50s played a blinder, neatly using war debt and the martial plan to usurp the exhausted british empire's trading power. The dollar became the global reserve and all of the new global institutions were setup and housed in the USA.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#350
He is a bit naive in general but he is mostly right.

1. Hyperfinancialization was a huge mistake (e.g. a house should not be an investment)

2. ZIRP was a huge mistake: revenue matters, the current SP500 P/E ratio is insane. [1]

3. Manufacturing matters if you want to keep the blue collar people engaged economically. It's bewildering how US Democrats turned their back on their political base, the proletariat.

[1] https://www.currentmarketvaluation.com/models/price-earnings...

Now, what he gets wrong. China is also doing hyperfinancialization, just slightly different. Their housing market is crazy with tofu constructions and mostly empty cities. And they got already the Evergrande collapse. China also over-invests to take over markets, for example BYD is kind of a gigantic ponzi scheme [2].

[2] BYD’s Financial Time Bomb: A Replica of Evergrande's Collapse in the Making https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHpTWsBRIQs

As many other people said, Trump is making a huge mistake on tariffs. He should be putting tariffs on the completed products but not on the supply chain. Block subsidized EVs but not the small parts for industry and make Europe do the same. This would prick the Chinese manufacturing bubble.

And about importing talent, the system needs an overhaul. The H1B system is completely rigged and most of it brings cheap consultants for jobs easily sourced locally. Improve local competition. But bring the high earners. Make H1B for say 300k and up salaries for a minimum 5 year contract. And they should have a very strict English test, I'm fed up with people who don't bother to learn basic English because they live in bubbles of their country (and I'm foreign).

Also, and this is probably controversial, make some Singapore-style limits on who immigrants can live with and marry, forcing very different cultures assimilate. No more ghettos of very different cultures fighting each other. See how that's turning up in Europe. Before you call me a n*zi, Soviets did something like that, too.

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