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What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

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Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#341

Post by Gabriel54 »

defrost wrote: post #332
Gabriel54 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You think that [it] is based on giving some preference, but it isn't - its based on acknowledging and working to eliminate actual prejudice. I would like to understand your point here. I agree with you that the stated justification for DEI policies is based on "acknowledging and working to eliminate actual prejudice". I also believe that they explicitly give preference to certain groups of people over others. So wh…

You ask: > I also believe that they explicitly give preference to certain groups of people over others. So what is the point here? You give the example of the journalism, geography, and ethnic studies departments specifically seeking minority viewpoints. FWiW I don't think the DEI corporate and other programs in the USofA have been particularly well executed, they appear (from afar) to be more performative than subst…

If the sentiments expressed in those internal deliberations seem perfectly normal to you, we really do have irreconcilable moral and ethical viewpoints.

> breadth of viewpoints gives richer coverage

Breadth of viewpoint has nothing intrinsically to do with the color of one's skin.

> Journalism, good reporting, brings deep informed insights from the ground. That's not going to happen when reporting on foreign countries and disadvantaged communities if all the reporters are (say) from a WASP background and perspective.

Again, the quality of a reporter and their work has nothing to do intrinsically with the color of their skin.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#342

Post by jillyboel »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #281
ggm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to believe some will move for lifestyle reasons, but the problem is the post war IPO landscape (post 1980s really) across biotech and ICT has made one stark barrier: USA is a place where you can go from $100k to $100m vesting if you are lucky. That very few do achieve this isn't the point: you cannot do it, in almost any other economy. You have to be socially smart enough to see that a $100k salary and lifesty…

There's a lot of other benefits to the USA attracting high skill talent than just salary: * English language school system so your kids (if you have them) will speak a world language. * Racially and culturally diverse cultures, cuisines, and communities. * Exposure to goods from most of the world, even if marked up. * Availability of international franchises headquartered in other countries in major metros. * A stron…

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Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#343

Post by astrange »

addicted wrote: post #312
scarab92 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s not that many jobs going in academia in other countries, and you’ll be looking at a significant pay cut due to the strong US dollar. Most likely, people who leave academia will be leaving for industry instead. I do feel for those in the hard sciences, they have become collateral damage in what is mostly a battle between politicians and humanities departments.

The U.S. has also become ridiculously expensive. Yeah the dollar is stronger which is great to buy imports. But you cannot import housing, most healthcare, most services like cooks, cleaners and bartenders.

Services are naturally expensive when people are earning more. That's a sign of low income inequality and low unemployment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect

See Agatha Christie's quote about how she couldn't have imagined affording a car before WW1, and couldn't have imagined affording servants afterward.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#344

Post by astrange »

scarab92 wrote: post #244
caycep wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the irony of Andreesen now being one of those now gloating over its destruction

I don’t think that is a fair characterisation of Andreessen. He’s always been a Democrat, including supporting Obama and Clinton. His recent support of Trump appears to be a tactical reaction to some of the misbehaviour during the Biden administration such as debanking political rivals and encouraging race-based hiring.

No he hasn't! He's been a Republican all that time and supported Romney.

https://www.businessinsider.com/surprise-silicon-valleys-her...

People are just so surprised to find out he's a Republican that whenever it happens they assume he's a recent convert.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#345

Post by myvoiceismypass »

scarab92 wrote: post #244
caycep wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the irony of Andreesen now being one of those now gloating over its destruction

I don’t think that is a fair characterisation of Andreessen. He’s always been a Democrat, including supporting Obama and Clinton. His recent support of Trump appears to be a tactical reaction to some of the misbehaviour during the Biden administration such as debanking political rivals and encouraging race-based hiring.

> misbehaviour during the Biden administration such as debanking political rivals

"Both Sides" Citation, please. Really interested in learning more (but no paywalls if possible).

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#346

Post by miki123211 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #296
scarab92 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a kind of lottery-mentality that Europe doesn't want to attract anyway. Except that it’s the opposite of a lottery. It’s almost entirely based on your skills and the decisions you make. There are right-place right-time effects, but it’s still your decision to be in the right place for the current time. Europe’s economy is badly lagging the US economy, and it’s because culturally they hold these types of inco…

It's almost entirely based on your skills, the decisions you make, and your privileged background. You're just not going to get past the first few rounds of the entrepreneur game if you're not a certain kind of person. The US has terrible social mobility. Objectively, by any measure. This isn't up for debate. Guess which state is #1 for social mobility? Wrong. It's Utah, which is a low bar because it's 28th by GDP. H…

The US has very low average/median social mobility (and it'll only get worse due to insane education policies and less standardized testing), but it has very high variance.

Going from $15k a year to $150k is a lot more common in Europe,, but doing from $150k to $150m is a lot more common in the US, and it's the latter that creates most of the value.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#347

Post by miki123211 »

scarab92 wrote: post #170
sseagull wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a scientist currently on an NSF grant. I am certainly poking around other countries to see what’s out there, and I’m not the only one. A lot of scientists (at least in my field, computational chemistry) have decent skills that are transferrable to other areas. So I expect quite a few to move on.

There’s not that many jobs going in academia in other countries, and you’ll be looking at a significant pay cut due to the strong US dollar. Most likely, people who leave academia will be leaving for industry instead. I do feel for those in the hard sciences, they have become collateral damage in what is mostly a battle between politicians and humanities departments.

> I do feel for those in the hard sciences

Those in the liberal arts probably have it even worse, as their experience usually doesn't translate to industry at all.

No idea if that kind of "research" is funded the same way as hard sciences in the US though, it definitely is there.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#348

Post by jillyboel »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #141

Despite all the hyperbole in this thread I will try to speak plainly. It has become tiring to see how DEI has affected all aspects of academia. Hiring people based on race, awarding grants to work exclusively with members of a particular set of minorities, etc. I'm sure most people choose to close their eyes to such things and move on and focus on the actual important work but there must be unimaginable waste going o…

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Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#349

Post by stevenbedrick »

avs733 wrote: post #315
Gabriel54 wrote: post #141

Despite all the hyperbole in this thread I will try to speak plainly. It has become tiring to see how DEI has affected all aspects of academia. Hiring people based on race, awarding grants to work exclusively with members of a particular set of minorities, etc. I'm sure most people choose to close their eyes to such things and move on and focus on the actual important work but there must be unimaginable waste going o…

I have written a version of this twice and deleted but just can't let this statement stand unopposed. This is, almost inherently at this point, a rant and my last contribution to this thread. This simply is not the case, I know it is something that you and many others believe is that case but you are being lied to by actual racists. I say that as a white man working in STEM academia. Academia had a long history and t…

Thank you for writing this- it aligns perfectly with what my own experience, as a white male in academia, has been with these issues.

When I talk to people outside academia about “DEI”, it’s clear to me that whatever they think that term means, it has no relationship to anything I’ve ever seen in my career (involving faculty searches, recruitment of students and staff, education, involvement in clinical trial design and recruitment, etc.).

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#350

Post by jimmydoe »

bilbo0s wrote: post #205
willvarfar wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China, for example, could set up a very European-style English-speaking institute in Hong Kong or Macau with high salaries to attract scientists. Singapore and South Korea too. One day Americans might well follow the money and the research freedom?

China's drowning in their own PhD's. The competition is fierce, and the pressure is enormous. The best and brightest over there are insanely capable men and women. In all honesty, it's hard to see China wanting many of the PhD's that would be available from the US in a worst case scenario NSF/NIH funding collapse. There may be a place for the top 0.1%? But for 99.9% of PhD's, there are Chinese replacements that are,…

China has been funding students from global south, that has big room to grow if China can overcome xenophobia problem in its culture.

As for PhD from developed countries, it’s gonna be hard as you said.

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