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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#341

Post by nearbuy »

wesselbindt wrote: post #70
coob wrote: post #2

Are either Israelis or Gazans more secure than when this war began? What has either side achieved?

By conservative estimates (see the 2024 Khatlib paper in the Lancet), roughly 7--9% of the population of Gaza will perish as a result of the actions of Israel on the strip. Many more will flee. According to UN, clearing the rubble in Gaza will take 15 years. That's just clearing the rubble, not rebuilding the damaged buildings, which is about 66% of the total. There are some clear indications that the intention of th…

This makes no sense to me. If 8% (171,000 people) of Gaza were to perish, that would leave Gaza with the population it had in 2020. The ceasefire reportedly will have Israel pulling out from Gaza fully and a massive influx of humanitarian aid is expected to enter Gaza. If the ceasefire goes through, the death rate will drop greatly and the population will begin to grow again.

As horrible as the destruction has been, this is nowhere close to eliminating the people of Gaza. If genocide was a goal of any of the Israeli leadership, they abjectly failed.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#342

Post by [deleted] »

robertoandred wrote: post #306
gravisultra wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all. The current conflict isn't some thousand year old feud. It was very much caused by the deliberate provocation and importation of European settlers via Zionism. It's easy to wave our hands and say "it's so complicated!" or "they've been doing this for thousands of years!" but it's not complicated, much like apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were not complicated. Colonialis…

Going to pretend that Jews haven’t lived there for thousands and thousands of years, before the Arabs arrived?

[deleted]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#343

Post by realusername »

xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

> Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released.

Don't hold your breath, Isreal already announced a ceasefire in Lebanon in the past and didn't respect it.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#344

Post by kelthuzad »

UltraSane wrote: post #195
vFunct wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"Social media showing people how incredibly biased traditional media is towards Israel" I learned how incredibly biased social media is against Israel. "Polls showing people now recognizing Israel are the bad guys and Hamas are the good guys" The same Hamas that murdered over 200 young people at a concert on Oct 7 2023? And paraded the dead body of a woman like a hunting trophy. The one thing that Hamas is NOT is "th…

Israel's history and present is the manifestation of amoral jewish supremacists[0] trying to ethnically cleanse Palestine by any means which naturally manifested itself in the current genocide[1] of Palestinians. Early Zionist leaders were outright racists using the Hebrew N-Word "kushim" to describe the native Palestinians which they were trying to ethnically cleanse: "Neither Zangwill nor Weizmann intended these demographic assessments in a literal fashion. They did not mean that there were no people in Palestine, but that there were no people worth considering within the framework of the notions of European supremacy that then held sway. In this connection, a comment by Weizmann to Arthur Ruppin, the head of the colonization department of the Jewish Agency, is particularly revealing. When asked by Ruppin about the Palestinian Arabs, Weizmann replied: "The British told us that there are there some hundred thousands negroes [Kushim] and for those there is no value.”[2]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_supremacy

[1] https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-c...

[2] Weizmann, quoted by Arthur Ruppin in: Yosef Heller, Bama'avak Lamedinah , Jerusalem, 1984, p.140.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#345

Post by cma »

wbl wrote: post #164
Thiez wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I think most of us can recognize they're not necessarily good by our standards, so they're not the good guys. But they are the ones resisting a genocidal apartheid colonialist state, so they're at least better than the Israelis. So if we call Israel the bad guys, that leaves Hamas as... the guys.

They murdered 1,000 civilians in cold blood. They raped, kidnapped and sacked indiscriminately. Arab, Jew, Druze, Thai guest worker. Then they rained missiles indiscriminately on towns and had the gall to complain about getting bombed and besiged. Let's be clear here: The IDF may have committed war crimes by not being careful about targeting or cancelling convoys that had contraband. Hamas deliberately targets civili…

The mass coordinated rape campaign narrative has been widely debunked.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#346

Post by giraffe_lady »

Sabinus wrote: post #274
zazazache wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is different from Hamas right to exist compared to the IDF or Likud? Hamas certainly has less blood on their hands!

>IDF or Likud The IDF and Likud does not have a policy of attacking civilians to achieve political or war goals. They likely have some deranged and radicalized commanders who do this anyway, but it's not the organizational policy.

They spent a year bombing an inhabited city into rubble, killing tens of thousands of civilians. Whatever definition of "policy" you're using here isn't particularly useful I don't think.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#347

Post by throwaway7783 »

pydry wrote: post #97
throwaway7783 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% support ceasefire. 100% agree Israel overdid it. 100% support Hamas must cease to exist. Don't leave that last part out

[flagged]

Which countries are in is this non-aligned world?

Please be careful when using the word genocide

Gaza population: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1422981/gaza-total-popul...

Jews in before/after WW2 in Germany: 500k before, 200k after, 100k now. 6M European jews killed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Germany

What Palestinians went through in the last 15 months is grotesque and unforgivable, but their "elected government" could have completely avoided this.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#348

Post by giraffe_lady »

Sabinus wrote: post #293
pydry wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>This was genocide Please don't abuse this word. If Israel was conducing genocide there wouldn't be Arab Israelis, and the population of Gaza would not grow over time. Ethnic cleansing and insufficient proportionality consideration, likely. Not genocide. The Israelis don't want to remove Palestinians from the face of the earth, they want political and physical safety for the Jews, and history has worked out such that…

This is not abuse of the word, complete success is not necessary for genocide to be an appropriate description.

https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide

This israeli scholar of genocide could see that just a few weeks into this escalation. Why can't you?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#349

Post by rvz »

threeseed wrote: post #156
vFunct wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Trump turned out to be the lesser of the evils This is based purely on his word which isn't worth all that much. Meanwhile Biden's actions has resulted in a ceasefire.

> Meanwhile Biden's actions has resulted in a ceasefire.

This war happened under Biden with the first ceasefire deal being rejected which that prolonged the war until the Democrats lost the election to Trump.

Under his presidency, he failed to prevent this war and failed to stop the Russia-Ukraine war from happening only which is why he lost a second term.

Had he or Harris won the election, this war would be still going on today.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#350

Post by tptacek »

Hamas was offered a ceasefire under exactly the same terms in May, and refused it. Since then:

* Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Hamas political wing, was killed in Tehran

* Yahyah Sinwar, the leader of the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in Gaza

* Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Lebanese Hezbollah, was killed in Beirut

* Hashem Safieddine, Nasrallah's successor, was killed a week later

* Large swathes of Hezbollah's command and control were wiped out in the pager attack

* Bashar al-Assad, Iran's most important military client, fled Syria

The Al-Qassam Brigades are shattered. Mohammad Sinwar, its current leader, is reported by ISW not to have communications with most of its new recruits, who are scavenging improvised weapons from unexploded ordinance. Iran's "Axis of Resistance" lies in tatters, their foreign/military strategy, of which Hamas was a key component, now seems totally repudiated. Hamas has lost most of its remaining infrastructure, supply chains, and support.

They should have taken the deal when it was first offered.

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