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Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

itvision.altervista.org

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Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#341

Post by itvision »

dqv wrote: post #301
itvision wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it desktop Linux though? Or it's a gaming handheld? Only why would you call it a desktop OS then?

Because it's a desktop OS installed on a gaming handheld. You're being unnecessarily pedantic. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/KDE_Plas... Guess which not-a-desktop OS ships with the Asus ROG Ally X.

1. How many people use Steam Deck or Asus whatever as a desktop OS for running actual productivity applications, doing work, printing and scanning, installing an removing apps, and not just running games curated by Valve?

2. Can you install an average Linux distro on the said two devices and have them work flawlessly? Nope.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#343

Post by itvision »

t_mahmood wrote: post #295
itvision wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most apps/DEs/etc. use either GTK or Qt. Which version of GTK? 2, 3, 4? Which version of Qt? 2, 3, 4, 5, 6? What about X11/Wayland/Win32 compatibility? Oh, it's a$$. And who will maintain/rewrite the source code? Win32 on the other hand? Except for the introduction of Unicode friendly functions it's remained the same for almost 30 years.

You're just a hater. I have to use Windows to test my apps, and each and every time it just infuriates me with ads and cluster fuck UI, constant notifications of different products, ads in start menu. It's only consistent on delivering ads, not how the user interface is organized How you have to tweak registry to remove the ad, but still can't get rid of OneDrives reminder, and then comes the forced updates. Settings…

> You're just a hater.

Yeah, with hundreds of contributions to multiple Linux projects including the Linux kernel, GCC, KDE, Wine, etc.

A total hater.

> How you have to tweak registry to remove the ad, but still can't get rid of OneDrives reminder, and then comes the forced updates.

Takes roughly 2 minutes, ok.

> Settings are spread in between millions of places, extremely confusing, and twisted.

Not sure what you mean. In Linux settings are spread all over UI, /etc /home/.config /home/.app etc. etc. etc. And you need to learn shell and console editors to configure stuff.

> Search results are random, what the hell?! Can't even run the most used app with confidence, from search. Which is just a absurd.

Search is not even available for multiple Linux DEs.

> Managing software, is freaking pain. Everything is everywhere, no proper centralization whatsoever. choco is good, but its cli, with which people have so much issues with.

MSI and GPO exist. Most serious applications nowadays have auto-updaters. Others often need no updates.

> Windows is just not usable, and in my way, it's only feeding on the legacy, the apps.

Works near perfectly for 2 billion users.

> But Linux becoming much better now

Barely works for its 40 million users, riddled with bugs/regressions and missing features.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#344

Post by senko »

itvision wrote: post #334
senko wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a tad more humble. Mentioned more than a dozen times in the kernel git log. Exceptionally humble, indeed. > You've never said how much time you've wasted fixing Linux or making software work. This comes up often and I'm always fascinated by the implied assumption that time isn't wasted fixing Windows or MacOS computers and making software work on those systems. The age-old "No, I will not fix your computer!" is…

Could you be specific about what constitutes "a rant"? And no I've spent far less time "fixing" Windows. In fact I don't remember doing that ever. I've had multiple cases when Windows stopped booting and in absolute most of them I just had to reinstall the system from scratch. That's all "I've wasted". Linux on the other hand? "It works for you everything is made up in the article". Never mind how once I had to fix a…

> And no I've spent far less time "fixing" Windows. [...] I just had to reinstall the system from scratch.

That's one way of dealing with it.

> Never mind how once I had to fix a glaring issue in the Linux kernel which rendered tens of thousands of systems unbootable.

You didn't have to fix it, you could've booted the old kernel. You chose to debug the issue and help. That's commendable, but do you think people (who work on Windows or hardware, or in IT departments in any organization) don't do that for Windows as well?

> And I'm not talking about my system, I talking about hundreds.

Is it tens of thousands, or hundreds?

> Lastly I'm just a poor Linux kernel bugzilla maintainer who actually overlooks a lot of stuff and sees a staggering number of fixes in every stable Linux release. I follow way too many bug trackers and LKML as well.

Well if you're Linux kernel bugzilla maintainer, it's natural that you see many more Linux bugs than Windows or MacOS bugs. Again, commendable that you choose to participate, help, and make it better! You choose to live on the bleeding edge, and so you bleed. But that's far from typical Linux desktop user experience.

> Could you be specific about what constitutes "a rant"?

Well, your entire comment is a rant: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rant

You're obviously very passionate about, and involved with, Linux. But you also seem to hate it so I'm confused why do it? Buy a Mac, be happy, live and let live, etc.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#345

Post by itvision »

skydhash wrote: post #288
itvision wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's free. Over the last 25 years I've spent hundreds of hours fighting with its bugs. Not free by a long shot. > it's stable. Anything but. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues > it's easier to use. You must be joking right? A step in any direction and you must use CLI. > it doesn't have adds. Windows neither has "adds". > it uses less resources. Proofs required. > it runs on older hardware. Good luck u…

> What would you like to replace in Windows that's not "replaceable"? Whatever is powering the start menu ads.

Takes literally 2 minutes of Google searching to remove.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#346

Post by itvision »

talldayo wrote: post #275
itvision wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, look up the author's name. Look at their contributions to the Linux kernel, GCC, KDE, Wine, and many other projects. A total clickbait for sure.

I don't think that will convince many people. Appealing to authority is one third of rhetoric, Aristotle would say that you need emotion or logic to convince me completely. Speaking for myself, I'm mostly surprised that someone with such an intimate knowledge of Linux has ignored it's developments to this extent. This entire thread is mostly at the consensus that you have tortured many of the talking points in this a…

> has ignored it's developments to this extent

What have I ignored precisely?

Bugs? Regressions? Missing features? Lack of funding?

Xorg being deprecated, Wayland being all the rage while being usable only in Gnome and KDE?

> Many in this thread have also identified that MacOS and Windows are deficient in several of the criteria you listed.

Windows: 2 billion users with no technical background.

Linux: 40 million users most of whom are geeks.

End of story.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#348

Post by mharig »

ryao wrote: post #170
IgorPartola wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully understand that. And yet until you can convince Debian to include a copy of Adobe Photoshop in their repository you will cut off a significant amount of desktop users. How do you propose to solve that problem? (Yes of course the solution is to fund Gimp until it’s better than Photoshop by so much that the industry switches. It was the solution 20 years ago too. Adobe has run away with this market. Photoshop i…

Most computer users do not use photoshop. For those that do, there are options. One is to use Krita. Another would be to use Wine to run the Windows version of Photoshop: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=applicatio... It works for a number of versions, although not all of them. It is a shame that Adobe does not port Photoshop to Linux. It used to run on IRIX: http://nekofiles.irixnet.org/Documents/ph…

[dead]

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#349

Post by Draiken »

itvision wrote: post #334
senko wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a tad more humble. Mentioned more than a dozen times in the kernel git log. Exceptionally humble, indeed. > You've never said how much time you've wasted fixing Linux or making software work. This comes up often and I'm always fascinated by the implied assumption that time isn't wasted fixing Windows or MacOS computers and making software work on those systems. The age-old "No, I will not fix your computer!" is…

Could you be specific about what constitutes "a rant"? And no I've spent far less time "fixing" Windows. In fact I don't remember doing that ever. I've had multiple cases when Windows stopped booting and in absolute most of them I just had to reinstall the system from scratch. That's all "I've wasted". Linux on the other hand? "It works for you everything is made up in the article". Never mind how once I had to fix a…

You literally have to reinstall windows because of how broken it got, and that's somehow okay?

The amount of BSOD I've seen and unfixable issues after spending hours googling and browsing windows shitty support sites are just the tip of the iceberg.

Windows is utter trash and the only reason it won is because of the monopoly it established, forcing everyone to use it, hardware manufacturers to support it and once the dominance was established, you can't escape it.

MacOS is literally only used with hardware lock-in. People don't choose it. It's forced onto whoever chooses to overpay for an Apple computer.

The only reason Linux won't win the desktop is because it doesn't have a monopoly to support it.

These discussions that pretend any of this is due to merits of one OS over the other are moot. It doesn't matter at all when it comes to who or how many people use it. These are all determined by external factors.

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