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What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

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Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#341

Post by alchemist1e9 »

_heimdall wrote: post #325
afh1 wrote: post #25

The scary part is not the GPS installed by the fleet company that previously owned the car, which in all likelihood was just forgotten there, but the GPS and eSIM that comes with most (all?) new cars and that in most (all?) new cars cannot be disabled. Apart from privacy concerns of your data being used or sold by the car vendor, government outreach is also a concern. There was a bill announced in the US for all new…

This is a huge reason why I won't buy more modern vehicles. Safety features and fuel economy are night and day when comparing a 5 year old car and a 30 year old one, but between the privacy issues and inability to diagnose or fix a new car I just can't do it. I bought an 80s model truck that sat in a garage for over a decade and has 50k original miles on it. I'm still chasing down a couple gremlins in the system, but…

Isn’t the gas mileage really really bad though?

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#342

Post by InsomniacL »

don-code wrote: post #163
dclowd9901 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you here. I have an 89 BMW (which is old enough to have an actual servo motor attached to the intake manifold for cruise control) and an 83 Land Cruiser (whose most advanced feature is that it controls its emissions using vacuum controlled pneumatic circuitry). I'm very glad I've put in the time to learn how to work on cars because I have zero interest in the tech direction of modern vehicles.

87 BMW here. I believe my servo is controlling the throttle cable itself. When the cruise control commands the vehicle to accelerate, the pedal physically moves. It's not my daily driver, but I would absolutely love to one day get another one as a project car - one that's not in such good condition that I'd feel bad removing the engine - and drop an electric motor in it. That likely _would_ become my daily driver. Th…

I'm not knocking anyone, but i bet there were people who showed the same level of scepticism to a electric motor being attached to the throttle cable as people do today to electric cars

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#343

Post by snozolli »

asteroidburger wrote: post #199
bluGill wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can convert any ice car to an ev. I takes time but is straight forward

For various definitions of "you." That's far beyond the reach of the average consumer.

So pay someone to do it for you. The free market has a solution.

It's odd how anti-hack Hacker News has become.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#344

Post by Forgeties79 »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #324
Forgeties79 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I talk about this issue with friends and family I bring up how that report revealed Nissan was gathering info on sexual activity in their cars and can sell it to third parties. That usually gets people to start listening.

Was Nissan actually collecting this data? All I can find is that the privacy policy retained the right to it (some lawyer probably though about what happens if they accidentally record you getting frisky, and put it in there preemptively), but no evidence if it actually happened.

Does it matter? We can split hairs over whether or not they are actually doing the thing they give themselves the rights to do, but that feels unproductive and disingenuous.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#345

Post by uoaei »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #341
_heimdall wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a huge reason why I won't buy more modern vehicles. Safety features and fuel economy are night and day when comparing a 5 year old car and a 30 year old one, but between the privacy issues and inability to diagnose or fix a new car I just can't do it. I bought an 80s model truck that sat in a garage for over a decade and has 50k original miles on it. I'm still chasing down a couple gremlins in the system, but…

Isn’t the gas mileage really really bad though?

Everyone chooses their own balance of bills. Personally (I'm not who you're replying to) I'm happy to pay more in rent and utilities if it means I can ride my bicycle most places instead of, say, being a 10-minute drive from the nearest crosswalk. In the end, my emissions are probably much lower than someone who can't imagine leaving their house without their car keys even though I drive an ICE.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#346

Post by alchemist1e9 »

uoaei wrote: post #345
alchemist1e9 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t the gas mileage really really bad though?

Everyone chooses their own balance of bills. Personally (I'm not who you're replying to) I'm happy to pay more in rent and utilities if it means I can ride my bicycle most places instead of, say, being a 10-minute drive from the nearest crosswalk. In the end, my emissions are probably much lower than someone who can't imagine leaving their house without their car keys even though I drive an ICE.

Makes sense. The other issue that is mentioned would be the safety features. Air bags and side impact systems are massive jumps forward in safety. Most people aren’t concerned enough with privacy to trade those for it.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#347

Post by snozolli »

p1necone wrote: post #211
_ea1k wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, its the same stuff that I've been told for decades now. TBH, it is probably less true with a lot of EVs than it was with the gas cars. ECUs are pretty strict and sometimes hard to hack. Meanwhile, third party motor controllers for Tesla motors exist, and the batteries aren't exactly magic. There's really nothing about electric drivetrains that makes anything vastly more locked down.

Yeah if the world went in the direction that prepper types seem to get wet dreams about petrol ICE cars would only be usable for a year or so - petrol has a shelf life, and you ain't running your own refinery. A lot of diesels can run off of any vaguely fuel-like liquid you decide to put in them, so I'm sure sufficiently knowledgable people would keep those running, machining parts for them etc. But electric vehicles…

petrol ICE cars would only be usable for a year or so

The Internet really overstates this. Fuel injected systems are sealed. Carbureted systems are open to outside air, so the fuel is constantly evaporating, leaving residue behind, and absorbing moisture from the atmosphere.

Gasoline in a sealed container remains usable for far longer than people on the Internet say it will.

Anyway, the final state of an apocalypse car would be running on wood gas. North Korea runs some or all of their military trucks on it (this may have changed as they've increased relations with Russia). An episode of Car Talk explained how it was used by German civilians during WWII:

https://www.cartalk.com/radio/show/1201-20-miles-wood-chip

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#348

Post by brookst »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #344
dghlsakjg wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Nissan actually collecting this data? All I can find is that the privacy policy retained the right to it (some lawyer probably though about what happens if they accidentally record you getting frisky, and put it in there preemptively), but no evidence if it actually happened.

Does it matter? We can split hairs over whether or not they are actually doing the thing they give themselves the rights to do, but that feels unproductive and disingenuous.

Yes it matters. Or at least it matters whether the claims you make are true, and there is a difference between “had a right to” and “did”.

Have I told you about my neighbor who uses a leaf blower nonstop from 7am until 8pm? Well, he doesn’t actually, be he has a right to, and it’s splitting hairs whether he actually does or not.

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#349

Post by to11mtm »

gmueckl wrote: post #113
Ccecil wrote: post #63

Back around 2004 a friend of mine worked at a car dealership in the Bronx that sold high end used cars. They were putting GPS trackers in all of the cars they financed so they could repossess them when the customer didn't make their payment. This was/is (from my understanding, IANAL) very illegal. They never told the customers either. The financing was ridiculous and they preyed on the people who had just enough down…

Dealerships in the US have become more brazen about that practice. They won't hide that they installed the device. Instead, they will upsell you on an anti-theft device. One dealer tried to sell one to me to the tune of 600$/year. That told me that they were butchering the wiring on every brand new car that hit their lot. I walked out without a deal.

It's slightly more complicated than that.

In most cases, Dealers don't own the cars on their lot; they are financed either by a manufacturer's financing arm e.x. FMCC, Ally (sorta), NMAC, or an independent e.x. Santander.

Oftentimes, the Tracking device is part of the finance company's agreement, if not part of keeping insurance costs down.

Of course, dealers are more than happy to try to charge you for -not- removing it...

Re: What does this button do? – My new car has a mysterious and undocumented switch

#350

Post by gruez »

chgs wrote: post #282
gruez wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>then disable airplane mode when you get to your destination? Why would I need to disable it? If you're not using the built-in navigation (which probably costs money anyways) and are using carplay/android auto instead, you should be able to leave it in airplane mode indefinitely. What critical functionality would I be missing out on?

OP isnt talking about putting the car in airplane mode, but the phone. The point is that you are already tracked via your phone (which is likely kit in airplane mode), so there’s not a massive gain to preventing car tracking.

>The point is that you are already tracked via your phone (which is likely kit in airplane mode), so there’s not a massive gain to preventing car tracking.

That's like arguing "you're already plastering your face on social media, why are you hand wringing about corporations/governments building a facial recognition database?". The difference is that the former is consensual/optional, whereas the latter isn't. Moreover, just because most people aren't exercising their privacy rights, doesn't mean it's okay for those rights to be trampled on for everyone. Most people aren't activists or journalists who need free speech protections, but that doesn't mean we can trample on the first amendment. Saying you don't need privacy because you have nothing to hide is like saying you don't need freedom of speech because you have nothing to say.

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