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Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

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341–350 of 481 posts

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#341

another point is: since WW2, denmark has one of the highest, if not THE highest, percentages of area under agriculture. During WW2, we temporarily allowed agriculture on very poor farmland. It was meant to cease after the war, but our strong farmer lobbyists kept extending the permission.. So it is not about giving up 'good farm land', it is about stopping abusive agriculture which is only possible with extreme chemi…

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Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes with quite a lot of compensation and subsidies, so they're less angry than you might expect. Also, an important note here is that they were part of the negotiations, and as such were part of the agreement which was proposed to the parliament. All that being said, you're right, they're not exactly thrilled with the government adding taxes and monitoring them more.

So you tax them for CO2 and then subsidize them for the same reason? How does help anyone else than salaries for tax and subsidy administrators?

Without having read the legislation, the two aren't necessarily contradictory. They only are if the subsidy mechanically increases with the tax.

A "climate income" is a good example of that. Everyone gets taxed by usage/pollution, but the collected tax gets redistributed evenly.

That way, on average there is no extra taxation, in fact it's typically a redistribution from top to bottom. And yet every individual will end up with more money the less they pollute. It's that individual incentive that makes the measure effective, but it's the redistribution that makes it socially acceptable (if implemented correctly)

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#343
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's not - in New Zealand 35% of GHG emissions are from cattle, with over 53% from agriculture in general. Source: https://environment.govt.nz/publications/new-zealands-greenh...

This is a strange companion, NZ has like 6 people and their main focus is agriculture. Anyways, I bet their volcanos put out an order of magnitude more.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eating less meat? The questions are mainly targeted at the consumption of animal products: meat, dairy products and eggs. Their research shows that reducing the consumption of animal products, and therefore switching from a meat-eating to a vegetarian or vegan diet, reduces land requirements by two-thirds. https://www.uu.nl/en/news/calculate-the-land-use-impact-of-y... Not everyone even has to stop eating meat. Just…

So in other words you want to reduce everyones quality of life. Let me guess, when people object and then go vote the parties you don't like you are going to blame everyone except these kind of policies.

Make no mistake, these hypocritical do-gooder authoritarians will still be flying first class and eating steak while they force us proletariats to eat bugs and soy sloop.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#345

The west is engaging in managed decline and moving production to places with less regulation and much worse environmental and social impacts. Why? What sense does this make? You would rather have some Muslim slave in China make your stuff while poisoning the ocean than make it in Denmark?

There are such a thing as tariffs. I think it makes sense that we both improve our local environment and adopt a carrot/stick approach to businesses in other localities that do/don't do the same. Same environmental standards with independent audit should grant (eco) tariff-free access. Likewise, wasteful environmentally destructive exporter = heavy tariff.

This is not how tariffs are being used and the actual reality is that manufacturing and production is being transferred to places with much worse environmental and labour practices that are also antagonistic to the west. Germany "greeniefied" their economy by just outsourcing energy production to Russia and in the processes ensured 10,000 of Ukranians had to die. This needs to stop. Nobody wins from it, everyone loses.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes with quite a lot of compensation and subsidies, so they're less angry than you might expect. Also, an important note here is that they were part of the negotiations, and as such were part of the agreement which was proposed to the parliament. All that being said, you're right, they're not exactly thrilled with the government adding taxes and monitoring them more.

So you tax them for CO2 and then subsidize them for the same reason? How does help anyone else than salaries for tax and subsidy administrators?

Ideally, you gradually ramp down the subsidies, to give folks a gentle offramp.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Denmarks agricultural performance is not great at all. it's way too expensive to produce stuff. if it wasn't for EU subsidies the agricultural sector in Denmark would loose over 50% of their profits. Agriculture in the EU is renowned for not being financially unjustified. For decades it's been a finantial no-brainer to import the bulk of agricultural products from south America and Africa. This is not new or the re…

You'd think that people would have realized this after Europe avoided mass death from Russian gas being cut off only because the winter was mild.

> the winter was mild.

Sure about that? I remember a cold winter.

> Blizzards, record winds, red weather warnings and biting cold. The long winter of 2023/2024 has featured heavy precipitation and a number of extreme weather events.

https://www.uu.se/en/news/2024/2024-03-04-a-researcher-expla...

And

> Large parts of Europe are starting the 2023-2024 winter season with an abundance of snow and cold, a stark contrast from last year, which was abnormally warm and snowless.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/12/04/europe-sno...

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are such a thing as tariffs. I think it makes sense that we both improve our local environment and adopt a carrot/stick approach to businesses in other localities that do/don't do the same. Same environmental standards with independent audit should grant (eco) tariff-free access. Likewise, wasteful environmentally destructive exporter = heavy tariff.

This is not how tariffs are being used and the actual reality is that manufacturing and production is being transferred to places with much worse environmental and labour practices that are also antagonistic to the west. Germany "greeniefied" their economy by just outsourcing energy production to Russia and in the processes ensured 10,000 of Ukranians had to die. This needs to stop. Nobody wins from it, everyone lose…

Come on. It is not Germany's fault that Putin is a madman. Choosing cheap gas over more expensive gas, oil and dirty coal was a win-win. Until Putin was too irrational.

Btw.: more than 50.000 Ukrainian soldiers are dead by the latest estimates I have read.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#350
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Danish agricultural industry accounts for 1% of GDP and almost 70% of land use, the highest in the world. The Wikipedia page on Denmark doesn't even bother to list it as a major industry (unlike Lego) and the only figures I could find put it at around 8B DKK. Lego does 66B DKK on its own. What criteria are you using?

Lego is not edible. they'll need food in the coming war.

Jesus, what war are you talking about?
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