Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

newsletter.weskao.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–346 of 346 posts

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#341

Post by dpig_ »

Kamq wrote: post #101
NAHWheatCracker wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that's how it should be, but experience tells me that everyone is insecure and it's hardly correlated with position and job security. People lower down the chain are insecure because they could legitimately be let go at any time for any reason. People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. Especially having failings pointed out by someone "below" them.

> People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. You don't do it in public. There's no face to lose in private (you're a subordinate, face is only lost among peers and superiors). It is, however, not really a good idea to be 100% blunt out of the gate. There's a dance to it. But in public, I'm there to make my manager look good, and in private I'll tell them exactly what I think. On…

Even if you do it in private, they may take it as a sign of a subordinate who has designs on their job. Or on toppling them at any rate. Insecurity is everywhere.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#342

Post by palata »

carimura wrote: post #335
palata wrote: post #42

In my 13 years of experience, I would say it's never worth giving feedback to your manager. Either they are good and it's useless, or they are not and they won't learn from you. I have come to a simple rule: if the manager is good, there is no problem. If the manager sucks (often that's because they lack experience, but it's all the same), just lie to them in order to preserve yourself. No need to have empathy for th…

wow that's quite black or white. really good managers should want your feedback. even if there are no obvious problems, groups can always be better. and don't forget sometimes large problems start small.

Yes, that was a blunt way of saying it, I admit it. Now given the number of upvotes, it seems like it resonates.

A more nuanced way of saying this is that if you need to carefully think about how you address your manager, then it hints towards the fact that your manager is not good at being a manager. And in that case there is no way you can teach them if you are their report (if you know better, maybe you should be the manager instead, but it means that you put your manager in a bad position by showing it).

It is also a bit extreme to say that a good manager never needs feedback. What I meant is that they don't need feedback about how they fundamentally behave as a manager. Of course they need to receive information from their reports (be it just "we can't do this because I just proved that it is technically impossible").

The difference is that with a good manager, you won't have to read articles teaching you how to not hurt their pride.

And finally, the problem maybe on the side of the subordinate. But in that case it's not a problem of talking to the hierarchy: if an employee hurts his colleagues because they communication is too harsh, then of course there is something to improve there. But in my experience, employees tend to "blend in": if everybody talks trash of everything, then newcomers will adapt. If everybody is respectful, newcomers will be respectful.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#343

Post by tremon »

danjl wrote: post #34
lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

It would be wonderful if the world could accept blunt feedback. It is certainly easier to give and more in-line with what most technical people would prefer. However, we work with humans, and we have learned an awful lot about how humans respond to language, especially criticism. The advice here applies to giving feedback to any human , not just superiors. As you spend time working with humans, you learn, perhaps slo…

It's also learned behaviour. Generally speaking, American corporate culture does cherish its pussyfooting around difficult subjects, as do most Asian cultures (I gather, no personal experience there). European and South-American cultures are somewhere on the opposite end of that spectrum IME.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#345

Post by johnfn »

lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

The notion that there are only two options: that your superiors should be perfect receptors of all information, no matter how poorly phrased, or that you should begin "polishing your resume", is immature. The world is more complex than this.
Post reply on HN