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Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#341

Post by returningfory2 »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #284
returningfory2 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though it is supposed to be for skilled jobs that a capable american is not available to do. No it's not. The H-1B program has no requirement for a labor market test (i.e. showing that there is no citizen that can do the job). The Immigration and Nationality Act, which is the source of the H-1B program, does not have such a requirement. The only big requirements are that the job require a degree (except for fashion…

huh I thought the “good faith steps to recruit U.S. workers” part was for every company, but apparently it’s only for certain companies receiving money or who have already got in trouble. I would have been more against it if I realized that.

Yeah. To be clear I think it's fair to be critical of the current shape of the H-1B program (personally, I think the way it's used by outsourcing companies is pretty bad).

But there's a logical fallacy in these discussions in which people criticize the current H-1B program for not being compliant with some made-up version of what the H-1B program is. If you don't like the current program, the solution is not "we need to do what the law says" because in fact the current program is 100% compliant with the law. The solution is to change the law.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#342

Post by gmueckl »

cryo28 wrote: post #25
shmatt wrote: post #14

I have to put out a ghost job req and interview every person applying within reason for every green card a direct report is applying for. I have to show there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job The main problem is: even if the interviewee knocks it out of the park, is an amazing engineer, I still am not interested in firing my OPT/h1b team member who can still legally work for 2-3 years. So…

So, you are effectively committing fraud!

No. Following the letter of the law cannot be fraud. I think you don't understand the rules.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#343

Post by newaccount74 »

gigel82 wrote: post #278
para_parolu wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This means small companies may not get good talent that value things besides salary (wfh, perks, fun project) and will have to compete with corporations for people who only cares about money. This may (or may not) impact startups

Stop it, no one "values things besides salary", and you know it.

I hired a developer who just wanted a cushy job and I offered him a cushy job.

I offered 4 day work week, no on-call, no overtime, but paid less than their previous employer (because I couldn't afford it).

I am sure lots of people value things besides salary.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#344

Post by [deleted] »

shmatt wrote: post #14

I have to put out a ghost job req and interview every person applying within reason for every green card a direct report is applying for. I have to show there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job The main problem is: even if the interviewee knocks it out of the park, is an amazing engineer, I still am not interested in firing my OPT/h1b team member who can still legally work for 2-3 years. So…

[deleted]

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#345

Post by returningfory2 »

jameson wrote: post #269
returningfory2 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These numbers probably don't mean what you think they mean. Certainly, the number of H-1B holders in 2021 and 2023 is about the same. An "admittance" is someone with a H-1B visa appearing a port of entry like an airport to enter the US. If a single H-1B holder goes on (say) 3 international trips in 1 year, that will count as 3 "admittances" in that year. The reason why the number is so low in 2021 is that the US gove…

Great point. The H-1B receipts total[1] is probably what most are looking for 2020: 427,200 2021: 398,300 2022: 474,300 2023: 386,600 [1] https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/reports/f...

Yes! Great find.

(Although, even these statistics are not as simple as they seem! E.g., when an H-1B status holder changes employer this counts as a new receipt even though the number of H-1B workers hasn't changed. In periods of time when there is lots of churn in the labor market, like in 2022, you would see higher receipt numbers just from the churn. It's complicated!)

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#346

Post by tootie »

indeed30 wrote: post #125

Hang on a minute. There is absolutely nothing in this research that measures the accuracy of this approach. A user saying "I was ghosted" is not, to my mind, proof of anything. Job seekers almost never actually know if the job was real or not, so it's hard to see how Glassdoor reviews can ever provide the insight this work is looking for. I do believe that "ghost" jobs exist, often for H1B purposes, but I don't think…

There's also no historical baseline of comparison. I know for a fact that ghost jobs have existed for a long time. I don't see any evidence they are more prevalent now than 10 or 20 years ago.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#347

Post by skwirl »

gadders wrote: post #282
shmatt wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law says I can’t submit the I-140 application, which I follow the law and I don’t submit it. As a people manager it’s a heartbreaking conversation to have - to tell a report their dream of staying beyond their visa is gone The law says every line manager needs to do their own industry pulse check every time an i-140 is submitted. And this is the only legal way to pulse check (advertise a ghost job). It would be m…

>> As a people manager it’s a heartbreaking conversation to have - to tell a report their dream of staying beyond their visa is gone If an actual citizen could have done the job, they shouldn't be in the country in the first place.

This is not a constant fact, though. In 2021 there were not enough qualified US work eligible candidates to go around. Right now is going to be a very different story for many roles.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#348

Post by bell-cot »

ein0p wrote: post #302

And the solution has been obvious all along, and was even proposed by Trump in his first term. Turn H1B into an auction so that only just creme de la creme makes it through, limit the numbers, and issue green cards sooner, with no additional bureaucatic bullshit. Maybe he'll finally get to do it this time.

H1B auctions are perfect, so long as you want to maximize the total dollars "saved" by American businesses, by hiring cheaper foreign workers.

But if you actually want a way to hire top-skill foreign workers in specialties where America is short on local talent? No, sorry. 99.5% of specialties don't and won't pay enough to win an auction where Big Tech has opened its checkbooks.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#349

Post by bdangubic »

projectazorian wrote: post #292
returningfory2 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though it is supposed to be for skilled jobs that a capable american is not available to do. No it's not. The H-1B program has no requirement for a labor market test (i.e. showing that there is no citizen that can do the job). The Immigration and Nationality Act, which is the source of the H-1B program, does not have such a requirement. The only big requirements are that the job require a degree (except for fashion…

The labor market test is usually required to upgrade to an employment-based green card from a H-1B, though, hence the frequent confusion.

It is 100% required for employment-based green card from a H1B. Anyone that has gone through this process knows this as their own job had to be posted to several job posting sites and each and ever candidate had to be reviewed and discounted in some ways (my company added crap to the posting such that it was simply impossible for someone to be as qualified for the job as me unless they sat next to me and did what I did for 5+ years…)

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#350

Post by lisper »

This is not a new phenomenon. It is quite common, and has been for decades, to to publish a job opening for a position that has already effectively been filled in order to nominally fulfill various legal and bureaucratic requirements to provide plausible deniability to senior management that the "best candidate" was hired.
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