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The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

afterbabel.com

341–350 of 528 posts

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no doubt it is the best option. For certain people. But why impose a single way to learn, when there is no such a thing as a "single size fit them all" learning experience? All the more when there are alternative options.

There is. There is a ton of alternative schools, homeschooling is legal in most of places in the world etc. The problem is that people expect teachers adopt to every single pupil. It's not possible.

> The problem is that people expect teachers adopt to every single pupil.

Nah. The people expect EdTech to allow children to find their own suitable learning style with only babysitter oversight. But no teacher wants to "demote" themselves to being a babysitter, nor do the administrators want to become seen as running a daycare, so you end up with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42116365.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think part of the reason computers swept into classrooms so quickly is that we had a generation of old folks seeing their jobs get computerized and they (correctly) felt that computer-literacy would be essential for a huge swath of the workforce. however, this group also had a very hard time learning how to use computers later in their career and felt "wow, this is really hard. we need to be very proactive about te…

…except today's kids are not at all computer literate. They simply know how to click around and sometimes type.

You should Google "marc prensky digital natives". You'll see this hype is over two decades old now.

> Unfortunately for our Digital Immigrant teachers, the people sitting in their classes grew up on the “twitch speed” of video games and MTV. > They are used to the instantaneity of hypertext, downloaded music, phones in their pockets, a library on their laptops, beamed messages and instant messaging. > They've been networked most or all of their lives. > They have little patience for lectures, step-by-step logic, and “tell-test” instruction.

There's a lot more cheerful predictions:

> My own preference for teaching Digital Natives is to invent computer games to do the job, even for the most serious content. > After all, it's an idiom with which most of them are totally familiar.

I think the core fact that learning is fundamentally about curiosity and motivation, not "engagement", was (and continues to be) glossed over, or intentionally ignored by a lot of tech-pushers.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing! Any articles on that school?

Not that I've been able to find --- it would have been the school local to Columbus AFB in the late 1960s to mid 70s. The State Supreme Court stuff is my hazy recollection of letters my parents received from other folks who were still living there when the school system was changed.

Looks like other cases were ongoing even in 2002, https://www.cleveland19.com/story/1045614/ohio-supreme-court...

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#344
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought it would be interesting to have a education system that focused primarily on the best outcome for the brightest students and focused the vast majority of resources on the top 5% or so. I wonder if the total impact made (gdp, research contributions, etc) by a cohort of students this way would be higher vs spending resources to slightly bring up the average on a large number of students that never m…

There are concrete objectives for educating a voting public in a democracy that would be entirely unserved by this proposal.

They're not any harder to manipulate once educated

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#346
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we use Screen Time on iPad and iPhone with some limited time for YouTube, while google.com has different time limits for school...the end game went like this: a) you can search anything at google, go to Videos and watch youtube with no limits, the url is still google.com b) he did come up with an idea to screen record everything and then re-watch everything using Photos app. After that was blocked, apparently you can…

Yep, we found the google-youtube url issue too. Right now, I have youtube filtered by MAC on my Roku. I would like to add granularity so that they can watch some youtube, but they make that too hard. So we all just share the living room TV right now so that I can just keep an eye on things. I'm still getting outsmarted though. I have locked-down parental controls on Minecraft so that my two kids can play together but…

We use Safe Vision to access YouTube by allow-list only https://safe.vision/

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#347

It seems the real issue here is that school devices should be locked down better? It's honestly shocking they aren't already. Why on Earth would kids be allowed to access TikTok over their school network? Mind-boggling, seriously.

It's incredibly frustrating as a parent when you've taken care to make your network and devices work a certain way for your kids, then the schools send them home with devices that have unlimited access to Youtube and trash-tier Web games and whatever else, and no ability for parents to manage any of that (of course). WTF. Thanks, now I have some damn object I have to keep away from them, but also have to get back in…

Yes! For this reason our school district has stopped sending them home in the lower grades. Most parents are thankful.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was your motivation for getting the degree? It does not seem, from your story, that its absence blocked the growth of your career; were there subjects you wanted to learn for which self-education proved difficult, or does the credential itself have some value?

A few reasons. For the most part, my career was fine. I had a job at Apple as a senior software engineer at the time (though I didn't really enjoy the job itself). Part of it was just a bit of an inferiority complex over insecurity of not having a degree. People were generally very polite about it, but internally it felt like every bad thing happened to me in my career was because of the lack of a degree; every comme…

Thank you for sharing your story.

I, too, dropped out of college, but finding employment as a programmer back in the mid-90s required very little luck. It became difficult to justify the time and expense of further education when my career already seemed to be launching, ready or not.

Funny that you mention MSR - I also applied there, back in 2007, and they are also the only people who have ever turned me down for lack of a degree! (Though I still got an offer out of it, after they passed my information along to devdiv...)

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#349
post #44
post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

A bit tangential but related. I dropped out of college in 2012 and was one of the very lucky few who managed to find software engineering work almost immediately [1]. I had a bit of a complex about not having a degree, and a few times I tried going back only to drop out again because I would get bored; by the time I had gone back, I already knew enough stuff to be qualified as an engineer, and as such I didn't feel l…

A big difference though between how you're able to leverage online learning as an adult with at least some real-world life experience vs. what a 3rd-grader can do.

I am a strong advocate for zero technology in schools until high school.

One thing that is rarely mentioned is that schools that issue technology to students and use it in the classroom now need to have a hardware, software, and network support person at every school. These jobs use funds that could otherwise be used to pay for more instructional staff, reduce student-teacher ratios, provide more special-needs instructional specialists, etc.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#350
post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

"Holding kids back" is not the reason EdTech fails at scale. The problem is that people who succeed in tech are able to effectively educate themselves, alone, without a dedicated human teacher supervising them or a group of student peers. (You need this skill to succeed in tech, learning new APIs/languages from written materials and online videos.) The techies who build/fund EdTech wrongly assume that everyone could…

> everyone could do this if only they had access to the learning materials, or if the tech vaguely simulated a teacher

Everyone could do it if they were taught to teach themselves, it's funny we've almost come full circle back to the original intention of public education and universities.

I believe (almost) everyone can teach themselves something provided they have the material to learn from (videos, books, teachers, etc.).

This is because if people can't truly be taught to teach themselves there's no larger point in schooling unless you have only exceptional teachers throughout. Mediocre and bad teachers, which are far more common, make it so students end up having to teach parts of the material to themselves (which unfortunately leads to a tonne of rote memorisation) - this to me is where the true benefit of public education and standardised testing is, not the information retained.

The point of school was never fill our heads with facts we will never use in the workforce - most blue collar work is learnt on the job (or can be taught in short time), and white collar work is (generally*) done by those who learnt to teach themselves (as proved by them earning something like a college degree in spite of the bad and mediocre teachers).

* I say generally because there are white collar jobs that don't require it. And there are rote-memorisers who have such good memory they can make it into these positions, generally though upon hitting the workforce they stagnate, leave, or learn to learn (ever had an incompetent middle manager who only knew how to follow procedure?)

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