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Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

marinecorpstimes.com

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Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#341

Post by starspangled »

flosstop wrote: post #276
the5avage wrote: post #251

> The investigation report said the F-35′s transponder failed as a result of the electrical malfunction So there is serious electrical malfunction and the pilot loses communication and also some of his displays multiple times. In hindsight we know it wasn't that serious and the plane could have kept flying. But how can the pilot figure that out, while flying the aircraft? One needs to evaluate decisions based on the…

> But how can the pilot figure that out, while flying the aircraft? The standby instruments were working and falling back to them in the event of a primary flight display failure is part of the training

The article says this

> Despite the investigation finding Del Pizzo followed the proper procedures and was not derelict in his duties,

But you say he did not follow proper procedure. Is the article wrong about that?

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#342

Post by gambiting »

InDubioProRubio wrote: post #328
Hilift wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That quote was Russian observations on their securing valuable technical information, but lamenting on their inability to overcome their capability gap through spying due to changes in tactics of their "main adversary". In WW2, a major factor for the US Naval success in the Pacific was a change in attack doctrine. Aircraft would attack relentlessly from multiple directions, overwhelming the Japanese defenses. In the…

[flagged]

Why would such a person be anywhere near the front line?

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#343

Post by burnt-resistor »

fastball wrote: post #237
ldargin wrote: post #163

Maybe he didn't have the stick-and-rudder skills needed to ace that emergency; he's not like Sullenberger. But he prioritized saving his own life over that plane, and that's the real, unspoken problem.

You shouldn't be flying an F-35B if you can't fly it without the HUD (assuming functional flight controls).

There are no steam gauge backup instruments in the F-35 and there is no HUD either, everything relies on the HMDS and the MFD. If the MFD happened to not work, that would be fatal because (almost) everything depends on it because it's like a almost like a Tesla console. GFL piloting an F-35 without an MFD in IMC.

https://www.codeonemagazine.com/images/media/Front_Office_01...

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#344

Post by gambiting »

close04 wrote: post #322
cwillu wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Better to die than to look bad” is one of the more toxic sayings associated with military aviation.

Nothing in the incident report suggests the pilot's life was at any point in imminent danger, with the backup instruments functioning, and the plane being flyable. He "technically" did well to eject only because the manual was too vague. But at the very least "I could have done more but technically didn't have to" is not what you're looking for in a squadron commander. Which is why he's still allowed to fly (he follo…

Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but I imagine the most straightforward explanation is the correct one - he ejected because he didn't feel safe flying this aircaft anymore. I cannot possibly imagine that any pilot would eject from an aircraft they felt comfortable flying, given that actually ejection is horrifically dangerous and is very likely to maim or kill you, with most pilots unable to return to active duty after ejecting. He wasn't sitting there going "well the plane is flying fine, but the manual says to eject so off I go I guess".

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#345

Post by elashri »

cdot2 wrote: post #304
victorbjorklund wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US pilots havent really been engaged in a war against a peer since ww2. It might be true. But we probably shouldnt extrapolate from bombing terrorists in the desert to actually fighting against say China.

The US air force fought significant enemy air forces in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and in the Balkans. Their doctrine has not remained untested since 1945.

The closest wars are the Iraqi and Balkans ware. For the first the vast majority of Iraq air force were destroyed on the ground or fled to neighboring countries, there were rarely any meaningful air to air fights.

For Balkans, there were minimal air activities for Serbian air force. They were up against NATO (not only US) and all of the little opposition they had were using air defence systems which managed to down a couple of Nato air Jets. I wouldn't describe each of these two as significant in any meaningful way. Just to give example on scale. In Balkans, serbian air force had like a dozen modern air craft against ~ 1000 NATO aircrafts.

One can say that the it was a little bit different in Korea and Vietnam but this was much closer to 1945 than nowadays.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#346

Post by actionfromafar »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #263
acyou wrote: post #228

If you're familiar with USA military history, the Americans are (were) famous for not doing things by the book for the right reasons, and letting common sense prevail, as well as incentivizing good outcomes. “A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.” “The reason that the American Navy does so well…

US pilots havent really been engaged in a war against a peer since ww2. It might be true. But we probably shouldnt extrapolate from bombing terrorists in the desert to actually fighting against say China.

On the other hand, specifically with China there's nothing to extrapolate from at all really.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#347

Post by potato3732842 »

david-gpu wrote: post #292
db48x wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thrust is important but actually secondary to steering. You don’t necessarily bail right away if you lose thrust because you could still be able to glide to somewhere you can land. You might also be able to fix the problem. Of course if you’re already at low altitude or you’re in bad weather then you might not have a lot of time to try such things, but the rest of the time you do.

Fighter planes don't really glide, do they?

They gilde better than the space shuttle and that got deadsticked every time it got flown (well, almost every time).

The aerodynamic properties make both high speeds possible while retaining maneuverability at low speeds tend to lend themselves well to decent (for a jet) glide performance. What they trade off is stability.

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#349

Post by elashri »

Prbeek wrote: post #340
cdot2 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US air force fought significant enemy air forces in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and in the Balkans. Their doctrine has not remained untested since 1945.

Take Vietnam for instance where the Soviets supplied the Vietcongs with AD systems and at times manned them The Americans lost over 10,000 aircrafts over a 10 year period which is an average of 3 per day. The US airforce cannot survive the attrition rate that a war with Russia or China would bring.

For completeness most of these losses were UAVs and Helicopters. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_of_the...

Re: Marine pilot loses command after ejecting from F-35B that kept flying

#350

Post by fragmede »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #285
fragmede wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

64 miles sounds quite far, and I've gone quite fast on my motorcycle, but the top speed of the F-35B (that they tell us) is 1,200 mph. At that speed that's just over 3 minutes.

According to the report, the jet flew for at least 11 more minutes. No one flies fighter jets at max speed unless absolutely necessary.

That's still a decent ground speed of 350 mph! Never gotten my bike to go quite that fast
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