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We're Leaving Kubernetes

gitpod.io

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Re: We're Leaving Kubernetes

#341

Post by chipdart »

liveoneggs wrote: post #336
chipdart wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a bad idea. Not really. It all depends on what are your needs. > It defeats a major feature of the jvm. You're confusing things. Just because Java addressed the deployability problem for Java applications before containerization was even a word, this does not mean that deploying a JVM per service is a bad idea. Just think about it for a second. Why do you need to deploy and scale services independently? Do…

We were talking about dev enviroments on desktops, not independently scalable components. I did mention the jvm in my response. You quoted me doing so, in fact.

> We were talking about dev enviroments on desktops, not independently scalable components.

Your dev environment is expected to mimick your production environment, not the other way around.

Re: We're Leaving Kubernetes

#342

Post by pxc »

nixdev wrote: post #337
pxc wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpopular take? I thought it was common knowledge that computer operation and computer programming involve distinct (if overlapping) skillsets.

It's unpopular because developers want to have root access to their machines whilst being proudly ignorant to how fast the sensitive medical data or financial data they're working on can fly out of the machine. Even when provided a means to instantiate virtual machines where they can have root access within the virtual machine, a lot of them will bitch.

> Even when provided a means to instantiate virtual machines where they can have root access within the virtual machine, a lot of them will bitch.

Well, yeah. I spent a year or so doing all my work in a VM (for other reasons) and it sucked.

> proudly ignorant to how fast the sensitive medical data or financial data they're working on can fly out of the machine

Hey, this is an easy choice! If I can have local root XOR sensitive production data on my machine, I pick local root. Keep that PII the fuck away from my disk, please!! (Hell, do that whether I have root or not.)

Re: We're Leaving Kubernetes

#343

Post by bamboozled »

pmarreck wrote: post #197
bamboozled wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try Devbox, you can basically ignore nix entirely and reap all the benefits.

When I looked at it, I encountered some problem that unfortunately slips my mind now.

We have issues with it from time to time, it's under fairly active development, give it a try.

Re: We're Leaving Kubernetes

#344

Post by tored »

trog wrote: post #339
tored wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The painful part of that setup is that all the tools you want to use on the source code must either run on the server itself, thus installed somehow, or some slow remote mounted filesystem, this severely limits the tools you may want to use.

What tools don't run on Linux? Modern tooling almost assumes Linux in most cases now. As a Windows user I feel like I hit this wall way more often than any other.

Running an IDE over ssh or samba is just an awful experience, but generally if I want a command line tool to be installed I need to be either root or I need to ask the administrator of the server to install it, on my own machine I can install whatever I want and I can run whatever operating system or distro I want.

And if I'm traveling I can bring my laptop with me, can't do that with a server.

Re: We're Leaving Kubernetes

#345

Post by trog »

tored wrote: post #344
trog wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What tools don't run on Linux? Modern tooling almost assumes Linux in most cases now. As a Windows user I feel like I hit this wall way more often than any other.

Running an IDE over ssh or samba is just an awful experience, but generally if I want a command line tool to be installed I need to be either root or I need to ask the administrator of the server to install it, on my own machine I can install whatever I want and I can run whatever operating system or distro I want. And if I'm traveling I can bring my laptop with me, can't do that with a server.

Oh right sorry I did forget about that aspect. I haven't done that for a while with a big codebase with, say, VS Code, and not on anything that wasn't very low latency (sub 10ms, so local LAN). I am mostly editing directly on the server when I do it these days but that wouldn't fly for anything other than the light hacking I do.

Re: We're Leaving Kubernetes

#346

Post by tored »

trog wrote: post #345
tored wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running an IDE over ssh or samba is just an awful experience, but generally if I want a command line tool to be installed I need to be either root or I need to ask the administrator of the server to install it, on my own machine I can install whatever I want and I can run whatever operating system or distro I want. And if I'm traveling I can bring my laptop with me, can't do that with a server.

Oh right sorry I did forget about that aspect. I haven't done that for a while with a big codebase with, say, VS Code, and not on anything that wasn't very low latency (sub 10ms, so local LAN). I am mostly editing directly on the server when I do it these days but that wouldn't fly for anything other than the light hacking I do.

These days with many working on remote location you also need to include the VPN latency.

Re: We're Leaving Kubernetes

#347

Post by jrs235 »

rileymat2 wrote: post #164
animal_spirits wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invariably this is an ideal and does not match up in reality. I work at ~50 ish employee company and we have layers of dependencies between at least 6 or 7 various microservices. I can see this adding up in complexity as the product scales

Yes, the real world trumps theory, hence my question.

Reminds me of a favorite quote: "What's the difference between between theory and practice (reality)? In theory, they're the same."

Re: We're Leaving Kubernetes

#348

Post by kgeist »

stephenr wrote: post #283
Tainnor wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most services are written in Go though and are pretty lightweight That's probably the difference. Throw elasticsearch, kafka and a bunch of Java services in and you'll be easily exhausting your RAM (at least at startup).

16GB of RAM is hardly a gargantuan amount in 2024 - it's not unreasonable to expect someone running a local dev environment to have a more practical amount. I wouldn't buy (or recommend) any machine for dev work with less than 64GB in 2024.

>I wouldn't buy (or recommend) any machine for dev work with less than 64GB in 2024.

Honestly, I think it depends on what kind of languages/frameworks/tools you use. Go is very lightweight, and you can safely run hundreds of Go services under 16 GB no problem (and with a crappy CPU, too). Python/Java/PHP etc. on the other hand, are much more wasteful. Our Go shop only now is considering maybe buying 32GB dev machines...

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