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Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

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Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#341

Post by tedunangst »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #311
piva00 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're still keeping it somewhat together, agree it got ever more confusing with the introduction of more performance tiers but after 3 generations it's been easy to keep track of: Mx (base) -> Pro -> Max -> Ultra. Think it's still quite far away from naming conventions of PC territory. Now I got curious on what naming scheme could be clearer for Apple's performance tiers.

Max implies it's the top. There shouldn't be anything above max

What do you believe the word ultra means?

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#342

Post by wtallis »

ThatMedicIsASpy wrote: post #271
wtallis wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7614 MT/s on the RAM is a pretty large overclock for desktop DDR5.

There are 8000MT/s CUDIMMs for the new Intel Chips now...

They've been announced, within the past two weeks, and as far as I can tell aren't actually available for purchase from retailers yet: the only thing I've seen actually purchasable is Crucial's 6400MT/s CUDIMMs, and Newegg has an out-of-stock listing for a G.Skill kit rated for 9600MT/s.

The linked Geekbench result from August running at 7614 MT/s clearly wasn't using CUDIMMs; it was a highly-overclocked system running the memory almost 20% faster than the typical overclocked memory speeds available from reasonably-priced modules.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#343

Post by brigade »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #304
brigade wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you disagree with Intel's stated Tjunction, or disagree that Intel is capable of controlling clocks to remain within its stated thermal limits? Like even with Intel chips that actually died early en masse (13th and 14th gen), the issue wasn't temperature.

2x correct amount of thermal paste... not good. Insufficient airflow from blowers... not good. 110 celsius heat... not good for lead-free solder... not good for computer. This whole thread is starting to feel surreal to me. Pretty soon everyone will have me believing I dreamt up Apple's reputation for bad thermal management.

Well, when you don’t appear to know or care about the actual issues stemming from poor thermals (Intel relying too much on turbo clocks, toasty crotches, low battery life, noisy fans) and instead complain about made-up issues, yeah.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#344

Post by _mlbt »

miohtama wrote: post #205
loaph wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source? My experience is the opposite is often true

It's called Cyberpunk 2077

Good news! It's coming to Apple Silicon next year...

https://www.cyberpunk.net/en/news/50947/just-announced-cyber...

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#345

Post by whynotminot »

rowanG077 wrote: post #319
sangnoir wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has now made four generations of chips and each one were class leading upon release. Buying up most of TSMC's latest node capacity certainly helps. Zen chips on the same node turn out to be very competitive, butAMD don't get first dibs.

I disagree with the wording "AMD don't get first dibs". It's more like "AMD won't pay for first dibs"

I don’t think a lot of people fully understand how closely Apple works with TSMC on this, too. Both in funding them, holding them accountable, and providing the capital needed for the big foundry bets. It’s kind of one of those IYKYK things, but Apple is a big reason TSMC actually is the market leader.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#346

Post by starspangled »

comboy wrote: post #244
quink wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were in the PowerPC consortium starting in 1991, co-developed ARM6 starting in the late 80s and the M series chips are part of the Apple Silicon family that goes back to at least 2010's Apple A4 (with non-Apple branded chips before then). They've been in the chip designing business for a while.

> back to at least 2010's Apple A4 basically Jim Keller happened, I think they are still riding on that architecture

Actually difficult to know if it was Keller. Apple bought PA Semi which is where he came from. But he came on as a VP after it was founded by other engineers who had worked on the Alpha chips a year before that. Did he make the difference? Who knows.

What does seem to be constant is that the best CPU designs have been touched by the hands of people who can trace their roots to North Eastern US. Maybe the correlation doesn't exist and the industry is small and incestuous enough that most designs are worked on by people from everywhere, but sometimes it seems like some group at DEC or Multiflow stumbled on the holy grail of CPU design and all took a drink from the cup.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#347

Post by nox101 »

alpaca128 wrote: post #310
thomassmith65 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the new MacBook Airs the ones that have throttling issues due to heat?

Yes, but you only really encounter that when pushing the CPU to 100% for more than a few minutes. The cooling is objectively terrible, but still easily enough for most users, that's the crazy thing.

maybe? as local LLM/SD etc get more common it might be common to push it. I've been getting my fans to come on and get burning hot quite often lately because of new tech. I get that I'm a geek but with Apple, Google and everyone else trying to run local ML it's only a matter of time.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#348

Post by SG- »

amarshall wrote: post #328
dwayne_dibley wrote: post #234

How impressed should I be. In terms of Apples history of manufacturing chips compared to, say, intel. This is their 4th generation of the M chip and it seems to be so far ahead of intel, a company with significant bigger history of chip production.

It’s not quite a fair comparison, given Intel has their own fab, while Apple uses TSMC—and pays them a lot to get exclusive access to new nodes before anyone else.

Yet Intel is using TSMC for their latest chips now too.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#349

Post by thomassmith65 »

Affric wrote: post #340
thomassmith65 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, it is comparing Apples to Apples. The Gods didn't deliver specs to Apple for Intel machines locking the company to placement/grades/design/brands/sizes of chassis, fans, logic board, paste etc. Apple, in the Intel years, just prioritized small form factor, at the expense of longevity. And Apple's priorities are likely still the same. My concern is that, given cooler-running chips, Apple will decrea…

Jonny Ive left and Apple decided thinness wasn’t the only value. 100% Apple Silicon is that for computers. Very rarely do my fans whizz up. It’s noticeable when someone is using an x64 and you’re working with them because you will hear their computer’s fans on. The work Apple has done to create a computer with good thermals is outrageous. Minimising distances for charges to be induced over. I run Linux on my box. It’…

That is encouraging to read, and hopefully it truly is the case that Apple has weened itself from its obsession with thinness.

Some of the choices Apple made after SJ's death left such an unpleasant taste in my mouth that I know have knee-jerk reactions to certain Apple announcements. One of those is that I experience nausea when Apple shrinks the form factor of a product. Hopefully that has clouded my judgement here, and in fact these Mac Minis have sufficient airflow to survive several years.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#350

Post by nyarlathotep_ »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #201
post_break wrote: post #8

What's crazy is that the M4 Pro is in the Mac mini, something so tiny can handle that chip. The Mac Studio with the M4 Max will be awesome but the Mini is remarkable.

Does anyone know if this Mac Mini can survive longer than a year? Apple's approach to hardware design doesn't prioritize thermal issues*. In fact, the form factor is why I'm leaning toward taking a pass - I don't want a Mac Mini I would have to replace every 12 months. * or rather, Apple doesn't target low enough temperatures to keep machines healthy beyond warranty

I've had a mac mini m1 on my desk with nearly 100% uptime since launch.

It only gets powered off only when there's a power outage or when I do an update.

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