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Jaywalking legalized in New York City

theguardian.com

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Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#341

Post by Symbiote »

sheepscreek wrote: post #316
Symbiote wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know the meaning of the American word in Britain, but it's also not a concept here. Germany seems very strict compared to the UK. You can be fined €10 in Germany for crossing when the red man is lit!

While travelling in Germany, I got to know the man in the pedestrian lights has a name: Ampelman (Ampelmännchen). The fact that they gave it a name - no wonder it’s a touchy topic for them.

In Britain he has roughly as much of a name: the Green Man (or the Red Man), as in "wait for the Green Man" said to a child.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#342

Post by standardUser »

goodpoint wrote: post #278
standardUser wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a point you can feel free to make a point instead on snidely putting words in someone else's mouth. And where exactly do you live where only rich people drive cars?

Are you saying that car ownership is equally distributed even down to the poorest 1%?

Again, if you have a point to make then make the point. These leading questions, and putting words in other people's mouths, is silly and useless.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#343

Post by lolinder »

zahlman wrote: post #340
lolinder wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live in NYC? Anecdotally, when I go out there for business events the locals invariably suggest walking if the distance is ~1 mile or less. Do that there and back and you've hit 3 km walked on a single event.

I live in Toronto, Canada. I would have expected our culture to be less car-centric, if anything.

You'd expect that if you assume that US cities are all pretty similar in their car-centeredness, but NYC and LA couldn't be more different in this respect.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#344

Post by matheusmoreira »

enragedcacti wrote: post #131
matheusmoreira wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means pedestrians are always right even when they are wrong. Especially when they are wrong. It means they can do whatever they want whenever they want wherever they want and everybody else on the road is obligated to accomodate them.

What's the alternative? Stand-your-ground laws but for the right to get to Starbucks 10 seconds faster?

The alternative is having traffic laws for pedestrians and enforcing them and fining violators so they don't just walk wherever they please with zero consequences.

Why is it they get to disrupt traffic with total impunity and shift all the liability to the vehicles? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#346

Post by cryptonector »

bragr wrote: post #93

Since they made this change in California last year, I cross where ever when it is safe and convenient. I'm surprised how big of difference it made to the convenience and speed of walking somewhere. No more waiting for 2 different lights just to get to the opposite corner.

> Since they made this change in California last year, I cross where ever when it is safe and convenient.

You used to comply? Don't comply with dumb laws and rules -- it encourages them to pile on more.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#347

Post by cryptonector »

thegrim33 wrote: post #130

The dichotomy is pretty interesting to me, given that most major cities in the country have been running high-publicity programs for the last decade to do everything possible to reduce car-related deaths, especially protecting pedestrians and bicyclists. (Cities like NYC and Seattle call it "vision zero", a vision of zero serious traffic injuries/deaths). They work to separate pedestrians and bicyclists from traffic,…

In NYC it's not so much the cars that are the problem as the bikes. I've never ever had a problem jaywalking to my heart's content in NYC, and I've done it lots and lots. But when those bike lanes started sprouting up everywhere suddenly it became much more dangerous because it's very easy to forget about the bikes, especially bikes going the opposite way on one-way streets.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#348

Post by matheusmoreira »

havblue wrote: post #154
ferrous69 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong. this is basically NYC law already, including pedestrian interactions

One time when I jaywalked in NYC I could have sworn that a cab, who was a half block away, accelerated when he saw me crossing the street. My impression has always been that people hate having their time wasted.

> My impression has always been that people hate having their time wasted.

They do. This is why pedestrians jaywalk to begin with. Can't be bothered to have their time wasted by the law.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#349

Post by matheusmoreira »

mslate wrote: post #160
standardUser wrote: post #108

First, let's not forget that jaywalking is one of those "crimes" that is used as a pretense by police to harass people, usually young people and people of color. Second, as a veteran jaywalker, my rule of thumb is that if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong. The goal should be smooth movement for all. Third, just because someone else is jaywalking do…

Yes yes, the person outside of a car must provide deference to the car owner. Poor people serve the rich.

Of course they must. It's a two ton block of metal traveling at about 10 meters per second. Not yielding to the massive energetic slab of metal is quite simply irrational. Cars yield to trucks too. Anyone who doesn't has some kind of death wish. Some reality denying law doesn't really invalidate physics.

That's what always gets me with these "won't you think of the poor pedestrian" arguments. I never see people arguing for their god given right to stand in front a moving locomotive. Aircraft? Only time pedestrians are allowed anywhere near the runways where they accelerate is to board the plane. But somehow with cars it's alright. Dude walks in front of a train and it's suicide. Same dude walks in front of a car and it's murder.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#350

Post by Novosell »

leptons wrote: post #172
vel0city wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the driver is likely looking to the left to see if it's safe to quickly pull out and not bother looking to their right for that pedestrian stepping out into the intersection. I've been lightly hit a few times because of people like that. I've also almost been hit by people ignoring the stop line and stopping abruptly in the crosswalk area immediately in front of me.

The laws are clear about this. If the crosswalk has a crossing indicator, allowing people to cross, then the people have the right of way. It doesn't matter what the person in the car is wanting to do, they must yield to pedestrians. If they hit a pedestrian, then it's clearly the driver's fault. If a pedestrian crosses outside of a crosswalk (a distance away from a crosswalk), they are supposed to yield to oncoming…

Cemeteries are filled with people who had the right of way. The person you're responding to didn't mention legality, they said it was a "problem".
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