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Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

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Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#341

Post by tiledjinn »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #92
ethbr1 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably not a great idea to point at a monopoly, as a defense of one's own monopoly, and claim "Yeah, but he did it worse." Both Google and Apple's platforms need to be cracked open to competition.

If apple literally hadn't won their own case 2 years ago you'd be right. If the company that literally doesn't allow users to install ANY application, yet alone a whole store, is in the clear, it's mind boggling that Google's situation is the one they took issue with. Apple literally has a higher market share in the US.

Apple wasn't ruled not a monopoly. It was ruled that the evidence Epic brought in the case was insufficient to show Apple was a monopoly, and the court would entertain other arguments in the future.

Apple didn't need to do anything, but they didn't "win" that convincingly.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#342

Post by tiledjinn »

a_wild_dandan wrote: post #147
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If apple literally hadn't won their own case 2 years ago you'd be right. If the company that literally doesn't allow users to install ANY application, yet alone a whole store, is in the clear, it's mind boggling that Google's situation is the one they took issue with. Apple literally has a higher market share in the US.

Could Apple have Google-like restrictions in the future? Or are we kinda fucked because Apple already "won"?

Apple wasn't ruled not a monopoly. It was ruled that Epic failed to bring convincing evidence and arguments.

So yes, Apple could be subject to similar restrictions in the future. Either through another monopoly case, or [imo more likely] regulation.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#343

Post by rendall »

topherPedersen wrote: post #323

Love this, but Apple's the big offender not Google. Google's already pretty open, and they approve most apps. It's not hard to get your app on the Play Store, it's Apple and the App Store that make publishing your apps a nightmare. Hope to see things start opening up though. Very happy for Epic and developers everywhere.

"Why my apps will soon disappear from Google Play Store" was on the front page of HN a day or so ago. Enlightening.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41727933

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#344

Post by tiledjinn »

saghm wrote: post #213
ethbr1 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably not a great idea to point at a monopoly, as a defense of one's own monopoly, and claim "Yeah, but he did it worse." Both Google and Apple's platforms need to be cracked open to competition.

The issue is that the precedent they point to was categorically ruled _not_ an illegal monopoly in a similar court case. I don't disagree that there should be more competition in for platforms, but I also can recognize that the legally binding opinion on that disagrees with mine.

Which case is that? Because that's not how the Apple ruling went.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#345

Post by tiledjinn »

kelnos wrote: post #122
akira2501 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? This lawsuit is focused on Google. It's existence or the facts conveyed within do not provide any cover to Apple. They don't prevent Apple from facing the same lawsuit or from being covered by the same judgement. Do you feel this way when we put a murderer away? I mean, "his murder was illegal, but yet, some people still get away with it?! What is this injusti…

> They don't prevent Apple from facing the same lawsuit or from being covered by the same judgement. I thought Apple did face the same lawsuit, against the same plaintiff, and Apple won.

Better to say Apple failed to lose. The court explicitly left open the question as to whether they are a monopoly. They just didn't provide any meaningful injunctions as a result of that case.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#346

Post by tiledjinn »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #7
tmtvl wrote: post #6

Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? Well, I guess Google's market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple's 3 trillion, so I guess that's fair.

I was under the impression the App Store was indeed ruled a monopoly and that Apple was going to be made to open up third party app stores?

Epic v Apple the court decided not to answer the question of whether Apple is a monopoly.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#347

Post by reissbaker »

eru wrote: post #322
underbiding wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that Apple doesn't try and pretend their platform is open-source, whereas Google wants to have its cake (i.e. impose competitive blockers on their own platform) and eat it too (i.e. benefit from calling their platform open source and having free development fed back into it).

I'm not sure the legal system cares about that?

Yeah the code being open-source vs closed-source didn't have anything to do with the legal ruling here. The judge claimed that the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store are not competitors (LMFAO), and therefore Google can be held liable even if Apple wasn't. https://www.theverge.com/23959932/epic-v-google-trial-antitr...

(FWIW, the journalist who wrote both articles is ethically barred from reporting on Apple due to his wife being an Apple employee, but still apparently covers Google/Android, so... Take the slant of his coverage with a grain of salt.)

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#348

Post by tiledjinn »

hooli42 wrote: post #61
whimsicalism wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, just like how they've done on desktop environments

This is exactly the situation for desktop games right now, something Epic is profiting immensely from. It's an extremely annoying situation for users, having a dozen launcher/store apps around contributing to bloat.

More fair to say Epic is money pitting from, given discoveries from Epic v Apple and Epic v Google..

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#349

Post by spunker540 »

lolinder wrote: post #286
naravara wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you chose Android because it’s open, then the judge has just forced Google to make it more open for you. If someone chose iOS because it’s closed then the judge has decided it can stay mostly closed. Also Google is where it is because they pitched a platform that was friendlier for carriers to load up with crapware than Apple was. It wasn’t really openness for openness’ sake. If Google hadn’t done that we might ha…

I'm not really concerned about what will happen to Android—worst case scenario at this point, the community forks it and I use the fork. I'm concerned about the precedent this sets. As long as this is the state of US law, we won't see another open platform developed in the US because these rulings together say that the only way to be sure you're not punished for anti-competitive behavior is to ensure that no one can…

Google is not being punished for being “open”. It’s being punished for pressuring OEMs and app developers into illegal contracts behind closed doors, or in other words using its monopoly position in anti competitive ways.

Apple published the rules for their App Store over a decade ago and has largely stood by them so Apple is not being punished.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#350

Post by spunker540 »

lolinder wrote: post #240
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your lack of understanding of how you were defrauded does not change that you were. This is exactly why the government sometimes steps in to fix things even when a company is considered popular by consumers. Everything you have bought on Android was illegally taxed, and numerous things you bought outside of Android you also overpaid for as companies tried to absorb the abusive fees as well. You didn't "see" the antic…

> Everything you have bought on Android was illegally taxed I can't even remember the last time I bought something on the Play Store. Nearly everything I've installed for years has been open source from F-Droid or was my own personal code that I wrote and loaded onto my phone without passing through any gatekeeper. You can keep being condescending if it makes you happy, but you could also consider that maybe you don'…

Everything you have downloaded that was routed through Google’s undersea cables was illegally taxed
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