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Learning to Reason with LLMs

openai.com

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Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#341
post #83

The generated chain of thought for their example is incredibly long! The style is kind of similar to how a human might reason, but it's also redundant and messy at various points. I hope future models will be able to optimize this further, otherwise it'll lead to exponential increases in cost.

I know my thoughts are never redundant or messy, that's for sure.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#342
post #90

BUG: https://openai.com/index/reasoning-in-gpt/ > o1 models are currently in beta - The o1 models are currently in beta with limited features. Access is limited to developers in tier 5 (check your usage tier here), with low rate limits (20 RPM). We are working on adding more features, increasing rate limits, and expanding access to more developers in the coming weeks! https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/reasoning…

I'm in Tier 4, and not far off from Tier 5. The docs aren't quite transparent enough to show that if I buy credits if I'll be bumped up to Tier 5, or if I actually have to use enough credits to get into Tier 5. Edit, w/ real time follow up: Prior to buying the credits, I saw O1-preview in the Tier 5 model list as a Tier 4 user. I bought credits to bump to Tier 5—not much, I'd have gotten there before the end of the y…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41523070#41523525

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#343
post #87

Reading through the Chain of Thought for the provided Cipher example (go to the example, click "Show Chain of Thought") is kind of crazy...it literally spells out every thinking step that someone would go through mentally in their head to figure out the cipher (even useless ones like "Hmm"!). It really seems like slowing down and writing down the logic it's using and reasoning over that makes it better at logic, simi…

> Average:18/2=9 > 9 corresponds to 'i'(9='i') > But 'i' is 9, so that seems off by 1. Still seems bad at counting, as ever.

[deleted]

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#344
post #184

One thing that makes me skeptical is the lack of specific labels on the first two accuracy graphs. They just say it's a "log scale", without giving even a ballpark on the amount of time it took. Did the 80% accuracy test results take 10 seconds of compute? 10 minutes? 10 hours? 10 days? It's impossible to say with the data they've given us. The coding section indicates "ten hours to solve six challenging algorithmic…

People have been celebrating the fact that tokens got 100x cheaper and now here's a new system that will use 100x more tokens.

Isn't that part of developing a new tech?

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#345

Reinforcement learning seems to be key. I understand how traditional fine tuning works for LLMs (i.e. RLHL), but not RL. It seems one popular method is PPO, but I don't understand at all how to implement that. e.g. is backpropagation still used to adjust weights and biases? Would love to read more from something less opaque than an academic paper.

The point of RL is that sometimes you need a model to take actions (you could also call this making predictions) that don’t have a known label. So for example if it’s playing a game, we don’t have a label for each button press. We just have a label for the result at some later time, like whether Pac-Man beat the level.

PPO applies this logic to chat responses. If you have a model that can tell you if the response was good, we just need to take the series of actions (each token the model generated) to learn how to generate good responses.

To answer your question, yes you would still use backprop if your model is a neural net.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#347
The "safety" example in the "chain-of-thought" widget/preview in the middle of the article is absolutely ridiculous.

Take a step back and look at what OpenAI is saying here "an LLM giving detailed instructions on the synthesis of strychnine is unacceptable, here is what was previously generated vs our preferred, neutered content "

What's this obsession with "safety" when it comes to LLMs? "This knowledge is perfectly fine to disseminate via traditional means, but God forbid an LLM share it!"

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#348
post #87

Reading through the Chain of Thought for the provided Cipher example (go to the example, click "Show Chain of Thought") is kind of crazy...it literally spells out every thinking step that someone would go through mentally in their head to figure out the cipher (even useless ones like "Hmm"!). It really seems like slowing down and writing down the logic it's using and reasoning over that makes it better at logic, simi…

> THERE ARE THREE R'S IN STRAWBERRY

hilarious

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#350
post #97
post #58

Do people see the new models in the web interface? Mine still shows the old models (I'm a paid subscriber).

I do - I now have a "More models" option where I can select 01-preview

I can see it too, I am on the Plus plan and don't think I have any special developer privileges. Selecting that option for me changes the URL to https://chatgpt.com/?model=o1-preview

I tried a fake Monty Hall problem, where the presenter opens a door before the participant picks and is then offered to switch doors, so the probability remains 50% for each door. Previous models have consistently gotten this wrong, because of how many times they've seen the Monty Hall written where switching doors improves their chance of winning the prize. The chain-of-thought reasoning figured out this modification and after analyzing the conditional probabilities confidently stated: "Answer: It doesn't matter; switching or staying yields the same chance—the participant need not switch doors." Good job.

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