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Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

theguardian.com

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Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#341

Post by sourraspberry »

People comparing to WhatsApp/Signal etc. are missing the point.

The lack of E2EE is actually what has got Telegram in trouble.

The same stuff that happens on Telegram also happens on WhatsApp and Signal - but because it's E2EE, it's harder for the police to find it, and when they do find it, WhatsApp and Signal have no way to comply - they can't see the chats! That said, they will provide details to LE that they do have access to (e.g. metadata) - of which WhatsApp holds a lot more.

In Telegrams case with public groups sharing illegal content out in the open - this is viewable to LE and they request logs from Telegram for their investigations. This stuff is publicly viewable on and to Telegram. Telegram can remove it. Telegram can provide chat logs to LE - but they refuse to. This is why they're in trouble.

Moral of the story - if you want to start an internet service - you either go E2EE no knowledge, or you moderate your shit and cooperate with LE, you can't avoid doing the latter unless you're doing the former.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#342

Post by hexxagone »

dyauspitr wrote: post #286
ren_engineer wrote: post #90

the EU is becoming a parody >we've got to save democracy by restricting free speech and enforcing laws and regulations created by unelected officials

Unelected officials = experts We don’t expect our politicians to dedicate their lives to scientific research so this perspective is inherently flawed.

There are experts working at the commission.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#343

Post by a0123 »

phtrivier wrote: post #305
chad1n wrote: post #3

From Telegram sources: >Pavel Durov faces up to 20 years in prison in France. The trial will take place very soon – sources close to the investigation. In addition to drug trafficking, he is accused of collaborating with an organized crime group, covering up for pedophiles, fraud and money laundering. I don't know how reliable this is, but I've seen in 3-4 sources that he's arrested for terrorism, child abuse, drug t…

I would be very surprised if the _trial_ was to take place "very soon". (Trials hardly ever take place "very soon" in France.) However, I could imagine him staying in custody while being investigated for a couple days, then quickly facing some level of judge to decide whether he has to stay in jail or can be released. Once this is done, don't expect a formal trial until multiple months (and most realistically, at lea…

About the custody thing, he's an extremely high flight risk. If the French authorities are serious about his arrest and it's not just a dumb PR move, there is absolutely no chance he's going to be released. Not without 24/7 police surveillance and giving up on all this passports.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#345

Post by a0123 »

evilfred wrote: post #62
mdhb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any proof of this whatsoever or are you just making this up?

just one google away https://www.wired.com/story/the-kremlin-has-entered-the-chat...

Yeah, and do you think France is going to arrest Durov on the Kremlin's request.

Fun fact: the Russian government and high ranking officials are outraged by the arrest and are asking the Russian state to pressure France into releasing him.

It's one google away. Before you blame this one on Russia too.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#346

Post by nextos »

jfim wrote: post #323
dang wrote: post #303

We changed the URL from https://www.tf1info.fr/justice-faits-divers/info-tf1-lci-le-... to an article in English. If there's a better article in English, we can change it again.

One detail that's missing from the English article is why he got arrested. The French article mentions: Why was he under threat of a search warrant? The Justice considers that the absence of moderation, cooperation with law enforcement and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable numbers, cryptocurrencies...) makes him an accomplice to drug trafficking, child-crime offenses and swindling.

Does this mean that according to EU, or France, E2E-encrypted platforms need to "cooperate" (provide backdoors)?

Or does it refer to public channels only?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#347

Post by mouse_ »

jfim wrote: post #323
dang wrote: post #303

We changed the URL from https://www.tf1info.fr/justice-faits-divers/info-tf1-lci-le-... to an article in English. If there's a better article in English, we can change it again.

One detail that's missing from the English article is why he got arrested. The French article mentions: Why was he under threat of a search warrant? The Justice considers that the absence of moderation, cooperation with law enforcement and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable numbers, cryptocurrencies...) makes him an accomplice to drug trafficking, child-crime offenses and swindling.

So they're going for the ISPs too, then? Considering the drug traffickers, child crime offenders and swindlers were actually paying the ISPs, NOT telegram.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#349

Post by foverzar »

mc32 wrote: post #117

It’ll be interesting to see if the likes of Marlinspike, Firefox, EFF, etc., rally to support this guy. It’s really chilling to see the steps EU gobs are taking against free speech. In some ways they seem more authoritarian than even China and Russia. It’s like “free world” is becoming a farce.

Large geopolitical powers are all the same. It's only people who live there that are convinced they are doing better than those other guys.

Yes, that includes people from Russia, China or the US believing they are the ones who are truly free, and everything else are totalitarian shitholes. Each one of them is even kind of right in their own regard.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#350

Post by johndunne »

llm_trw wrote: post #216
the_duke wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any concrete examples where this would apply? (person getting arrested in China over an offered service) If not, this is just whataboutism. I can't think of any, to be honest.

Please reread what I wrote.

I reread what you wrote and I think it's fair to say that you're deferring to a 'whataboutism'. If you can provide actual examples of what you're talking about, then an intellectual argument/discussion could be formed.
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