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Supreme Court rules ex-presidents have immunity for official acts

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Re: Supreme Court rules ex-presidents have immunity for official acts

#341

It's interesting that even in the Roman Republic the immunity ended after the end of your term, and you could be prosecuted for official acts taken during it. And even let to Caesar fighting to keep himself in office at all times to avoid inevitable prosecution. https://theconversation.com/from-caesar-to-trump-immunity-is...

Awfully bold of you to assume we are better governed than Rome - back when ther was still such a thing as honor.

Re: Supreme Court rules ex-presidents have immunity for official acts

#342
post #65

> Could Obama be prosecuted for ordering drone strikes that unintentionally killed two Americans? It seems like that world would hamstring the president far too much. The President shouldn't have the legal authority to conduct any drone strikes without a declaration of war from Congress. We've been ignoring the Constitution for a very long time.

[dead]

Re: Supreme Court rules ex-presidents have immunity for official acts

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

My grandmother fled Nazism (and Stalinism), she would turn in her grave seeing how blind half of your electorate is.

Your grandmother is not the arbiter of politics, and we can find 2 other grandmothers with the opposite view and similar experiences.

Re: Supreme Court rules ex-presidents have immunity for official acts

#344
post #46

Curious how an ostensibly "conservative" court can ignore the concept of enumerated powers, the constitution clearly does not grant immunity to the President, so the conservative court invents immunity when none is explicitly granted. Indeed, the concept of immunity is recognized in the American constitution for legislators in a limited way, so this isn't an oversight by the framers corrected by Robert's conservative…

To a large extent this immunity is inherent in the enumerated powers. Consider this general case: The Constitution enumerates specific powers to the executive branch, and hence President. Congress passes a law that makes those same actions illegal if performed by a normal citizen. If this law applied to the President, then that would mean that Congress could nullify the enumerated powers granted to the Executive, making those enumerated powers meaningless. So it makes perfect constitutional sense that actions performed by the President as part of his job that that are within his enumerated powers cannot be made illegal by Congress.

That core concept of immunity is pretty solid and essential, it is the details that are problematic, in particular the fact that the courts have interpreted "official" acts so broadly in the past in cases of qualified immunity makes one worried they will do the same here.

Re: Supreme Court rules ex-presidents have immunity for official acts

#346

>The President of the United States is the most powerful person in the country, and possibly the world. When he uses his official powers in any way, under the majority's reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. I would consider this an extreme knee jerk take, but it's Sotomayor saying it. https://x.com/mikedebonis/status/180…

My naive assumption is that ordering Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival is not an official nor constitutionally authorized power, and thus would be prosecutable.

My naive assumption would be that giving that order must fall into the realm of official act. How can POTUS command the military, unless acting in the capacity of their Commander in Chief?

Re: Supreme Court rules ex-presidents have immunity for official acts

#347

Folks, the blueprint for a American dictatorship has been created and you'll be a fool and a idiot to think otherwise.

[flagged]

Yeah, we've been hearing the "alarmist" thing for 8 years now. "Roe is settled law, stop being hysterical".

Re: Supreme Court rules ex-presidents have immunity for official acts

#348
The Supreme Court took what should be a straightforward and elegant decision — the president is immune from prosecution for acts committed in office unless he has been impeached for those acts — and turned it into angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin litigation about what constitutes official and unofficial acts.

Starting on page 44 of the opinion, Thomas makes some very good points.

    I write separately to highlight another way in which this prosecution may violate our constitutional structure. In this case, the Attorney General purported to appoint a private citizen as Special Counsel to prosecute a former President on behalf of the United States. But, I am not sure that any office for the Special Counsel has been “established by Law,” as the Constitution requires. Art. II, §2, cl. 2. By requiring that Congress create federal offices “by Law,” the Constitution imposes an important check against the President—he cannot create offices at his pleasure. If there is no law establishing the office that the Special Counsel occupies, then he cannot proceed with this prosecution. A private citizen cannot criminally prosecute anyone, let alone a former President. 
    
    No former President has faced criminal prosecution for his acts while in office in the more than 200 years since the founding of our country. And, that is so despite numerous past Presidents taking actions that many would argue constitute crimes. If this unprecedented prosecution is to proceed, it must be conducted by someone duly authorized to do so by the American people. The lower courts should thus answer these essential questions concerning the Special Counsel’s appointment before proceeding.
    
    ...
    
    Even if the Special Counsel has a valid office, questions remain as to whether the Attorney General filled that office in compliance with the Appointments Clause. For example, it must be determined whether the Special Counsel is a principal or inferior officer. If the former, his appointment is invalid because the Special Counsel was not nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate, as principal officers must be. Art. II, §2, cl. 2. Even if he is an inferior officer, the Attorney General could appoint him without Presidential nomination and senatorial confirmation only if “Congress . . . by law vest[ed] the Appointment” in the Attorney General as a “Hea[d] of Department.” Ibid. So, the Special Counsel’s appointment is invalid unless a statute created the Special Counsel’s office and gave the Attorney General the power to fill it “by Law.” 
    
    Whether the Special Counsel’s office was “established by Law” is not a trifling technicality. If Congress has not reached a consensus that a particular office should exist, the Executive lacks the power to unilaterally create and then fill that office. Given that the Special Counsel purports to wield the Executive Branch’s power to prosecute, the consequences are weighty. Our Constitution’s separation of powers, including its separation of the powers to create and filled offices, is “the absolutely central guarantee of a just Government” and the liberty that it secures for us all. Morrison, 487 U. S., at 697 (Scalia, J., dissenting). There is no prosecution that can justify imperiling it.

Re: Supreme Court rules ex-presidents have immunity for official acts

#349
post #317

It's really impossible to understand and determine before hand how the court would rule on any of these theoretical cases that may result as a consequence of this decision. It is up to further cases to actually establish was constitutes "official" versus "unofficial" capacities as President and we can absolutely not guess before hand what that entails. From the decision, it seems that only those duties constitutional…

> It's really impossible to understand and determine before hand how the court would rule on any of these theoretical cases that may result as a consequence of this decision.

I've got a pretty good guess, and it will be based on the political party of the defendant.

Re: Supreme Court rules ex-presidents have immunity for official acts

#350

>The President of the United States is the most powerful person in the country, and possibly the world. When he uses his official powers in any way, under the majority's reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. I would consider this an extreme knee jerk take, but it's Sotomayor saying it. https://x.com/mikedebonis/status/180…

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf

> The immunity the Court has recognized therefore extends to the “outer perimeter” of the President’s official responsibilities, covering actions so long as they are “not manifestly or palpably beyond [his] authority.”

I’m hoping that the assassination of a political rival would be “palpably beyond” the authority of the President.

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