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Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

nytimes.com

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Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#341

Post by coldtea »

sofixa wrote: post #299
alexey-salmin wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth would you think laws would be necessary? This mechanism is older than laws or human civilization itself.

Because in practically every country there are laws on marriage, and it's usually (Muslim world being the exception) 1:1 in partners. It adds legal and financial protections for both parts of the couple. Unless there's a law change, how do you see this working? A married man going around spreading seed and women getting pregnant and going at it alone?

Back in the day we're talking about (up to WWI, WII) there was not much in "legal and financial protections" for either part, and the little that were were not really enforced that widely. Men having and abandoning children with multiple women was common, especially in lower and working classes.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#342

Post by kragen »

2-3-7-43-1807 wrote: post #322
kragen wrote: post #217

> Much of what is categorized as post-traumatic stress disorder may actually be caused by repeated exposure to blasts. that is to say, it's actually shell shock? as in, actual physical shock from actual shells? george carlin would be so proud https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc the article also mentions that they'd all trained extensively in diving deep underwater, which is also known to cause brain damage, b…

> diving deep underwater, which is also known to cause brain damage never heard about that. can you back this up with a source or explanation?

10.1096/fj.201701031R

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#343

Post by coldtea »

sofixa wrote: post #308
mkl wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infidelity exists. Serial monogamy exists. No-strings liaisons exist. Polyamory exists. Etc. Single mothers exist even with an equal number of men and women. The exact legal nature of marriage is not going to stop any of these. Enormous numbers of people have lived and reproduced without any legal or financial protections at all, including the majority of your ancestors.

And the core premise I'm disagreeing is that countries on purpose draft only men, because women are kept to be bred to repopulate the country in case of military disaster. IF that were the case, governments would do something , anything , to encourage such behaviour (one man getting multiple women pregnant) after the war is over. Nobody is able to come up with any examples of anything like that happening, which again…

>And the core premise I'm disagreeing is that countries on purpose draft only men, because women are kept to be bred to repopulate the country in case of military disaster.

It's one of the concerns, not necessarily the primary. Somebody had to keep the household going, raise and feed the existing children, and so on (which, at the day, and even today in most parts, was the role of women).

>IF that were the case, governments would do something, anything, to encourage such behaviour (one man getting multiple women pregnant) after the war is over.

That doesn't follow. Governments would only need to "do something, anything" if the thing didn't just happen by itself - which generally, it did.

And of course the morals of the day wouldn't have them explicitly promote anything of the sort.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#344

Post by kragen »

jajko wrote: post #318
kragen wrote: post #217

> Much of what is categorized as post-traumatic stress disorder may actually be caused by repeated exposure to blasts. that is to say, it's actually shell shock? as in, actual physical shock from actual shells? george carlin would be so proud https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc the article also mentions that they'd all trained extensively in diving deep underwater, which is also known to cause brain damage, b…

You state a lot of random things as a fact, while none of them are, not sure why the upvotes. Other react mostly to guns, but as a diver I can assure you that there is no automatic brain damage from 'diving deep underwater', whatever that layman term means. There are many folks in diving community with 10s of thousand of dives working cognitively as well as their peers. If you mean Nitrox for bigger depths, again tha…

i don't mean nitrox, and i agree that scuba diving doesn't cause brain damage at all (except, as you point out, in accidents)

possibly people are upvoting because they know some facts you don't

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#345

Post by torginus »

lawgimenez wrote: post #102
snakeyjake wrote: post #5

I was an infantryman in the Army for ten years, from 1998 to 2008, and deployed three times, twice to Iraq, Encounters with IEDs were common, especially during the surge. So many of my friends have died to suicide or have killed themselves due to drugs and/or alcohol that it is hard to keep track. Now that primadonna seals are dying maybe someone will pay attention. Thankfully the only lasting effects of my deploymen…

What made you think Seals are primadonnas? Does this apply to other special forces too?

I anectodally heard that some US special forces soldiers joined the Ukraine war, but after a few weeks of getting shelled, being wet and cold and not getting three square meals and a bed to sleep in, they packed up and went home.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#346

Post by kragen »

nabla9 wrote: post #281
jjallen wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rifles would never do this. They probably usually/always wore ear protection during training. Even if not it wouldn't do it. Many civilians fire guns throughout their lives, often without ear protection. This would take a much bigger explosion.

If you have been firing a whole day, you definitely fell funny in the head. Ear protecting does not protect brain much. It protects hearing. Brain heals from very mild damage when there is time to rest, but when you shoot all day, day after day, the damage can accumulate. One already recognized problem area is the show wave getting between helmet and skull. It can amplify the impact. Nobody knows what the impact from…

sure, nobody knows, but physically it just seems implausible

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#347

Post by nabla9 »

15155 wrote: post #339
sgarland wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you shot anything you mentioned? .30-06 and .308 are both quite powerful, and you can feel them in your chest when fired. An M4 (the only carbine I can think of in use by the military) is already a step down in boom as a 5.56mm; adding a suppressor makes that even less so. It’s like shooting a .22 at that point. As to SMGs, they’re all small caliber – 9mm, .45, 5.7mm…

All of the above, yes. I'm saying that a SEAL shooting a suppressed SMG feels nothing after dumping magazine after magazine downrange. There's no way this is causing concussions. Grandpa's 30-06 will rattle your fillings a little bit after one round - still probably doesn't result in TBI.

That's not all SOF shoot, of course.

SCAR-H, M14 EBR, M249 SAWs and M240 all shoot 7.52mm x 51mm NATO (compatible with .308 but slightly different chamber pressures)

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#348

Post by coldtea »

sofixa wrote: post #301
coldtea wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there were no laws or campaigns to allow harems or one man - multiple women combinations. You don't need laws or campaigns, it happens naturally, due to the increased sexual selection availability. And of course, given that, why would men opt of harems (especially where they aren't even historically relevant to their culture)? They'd just have relationships on the side, jump ship and marry again, etc.

> You don't need laws or campaigns, it happens naturally, due to the increased sexual selection availability Again, do you have any examples of this actually happening in the real world? It naturally happens that men become more desirable because there's less of them, but is there any actual case where it became widespread for men to get multiple different women pregnant to repopulate the country? Not to mention, eve…

>Again, do you have any examples of this actually happening in the real world?

You were given examples already: "Using unique archival data, the results indicate that male scarcity led to lower rates of marriage and fertility, higher nonmarital births, and reduced bargaining power within marriage for women most affected by war deaths"

You can read about similar post-war periods with similar problems and outcomes in history books too.

>unless there was a concentrated government policy to that effect you'd be mistaking correlation with causation - less men than women, so men are more desirable and can pull off multiple kids from multiple women doesn't mean that's the reasoning why only men were drafted.

Women were needed to raise the present kids, and to be able to raise future kids. People didn't need to have this spelt out in law, or to have subsidies for sex with more different partners post war.

Even so, the very link you continue to ignore mentions such legal changes too in the case of post-WWII USSR:

"The impact of sex ratio imbalance on marriage and family persisted for years after the war's end and was likely magnified by

(...wait for it...)

policies that promoted nonmarital births"

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#349

Post by hammyhavoc »

midjji wrote: post #248
hammyhavoc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EMP says hi.

The only usable EMPs we have are nuclear weapons. So if you are willing to use one, then just detonate it a bit closer to the surface and it will work just as well against everything we have.

https://www.carnegiecouncil.org/media/article/the-specter-of...

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#350

Post by 15155 »

nabla9 wrote: post #347
15155 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the above, yes. I'm saying that a SEAL shooting a suppressed SMG feels nothing after dumping magazine after magazine downrange. There's no way this is causing concussions. Grandpa's 30-06 will rattle your fillings a little bit after one round - still probably doesn't result in TBI.

That's not all SOF shoot, of course. SCAR-H, M14 EBR, M249 SAWs and M240 all shoot 7.52mm x 51mm NATO (compatible with .308 but slightly different chamber pressures)

Sure, but we should be able to see if 0331 guys and the like have a higher incidence rate of suicide overall. Presumably they are spending far more time on these platforms than SOF.
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