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Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

tomverbeure.github.io

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Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#341

Post by jmpman »

I’ve been using FSD for the last 6 weeks. Paid for the monthly subscription, and running v12.3.6

It’s almost killed me once, when it was about to blow through a red light at ~70mph, while a car was about to turn left in front of me. There was no indication that it was going to stop, so I slammed on the brakes.

Then, after about three weeks, it stopped tracking the lanes properly, and would drive straddling the lane divider. I’d repeatedly enable it when I was in the far left lane of a 4 lane road, and watch as it would promptly begin driving about two feet into the right lane. Disable, and reenabled and it would repeat this engineering feat. It continued for 2 days. Yesterday it was just driving extremely right justified. If there were any cyclists in the bike lane, my mirrors would be intruding into their space.

Of course I bought the FSD function as I knew that I would be attentive and provide feedback, kind of a service to humanity, as this feature is far from prime time, and isn’t safe. I may cancel the service as I’m concerned that my 17 year old new driver will enable it, and not be as attentive.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#342

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

""If somebody doesn't believe Tesla's going to solve autonomy, I think they should not be an investor in the company," Musk said on the latest earnings call in April. He added, "We will, and we are."

Musk has been making these kinds of pronouncements for years, and the company has yet to deliver.

He still has friends and believers."

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/tesla-shareholder-vote-on-mu...

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#343

Post by DennisP »

FireBeyond wrote: post #328
DennisP wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FSD already understands some human gestures, and it learns this stuff by seeing how human drivers do things. Understanding a headlight flash doesn't seem like a big ask. And recently, the biggest complain from FSD users was that it drove a little too aggressively. Because it copies human drivers, FSD actually was doing slow rolling stops for a while. Then people freaked out and pretended that was super unsafe, and th…

Neither of those things were "learned adaptations" from human driving, and this is one of the biggest fallacies around FSD. People letting their FSD do stupid things and only intervening at the last moment (if at all) to let it learn from its mistakes. That it might use the direction of the car in front of it as a guidance track doesn't mean it understood the human gestures of the cop telling it to do that. Or in a c…

Version 11 had lots of hand-coded behavior. Version 12 is entirely a neural network, trained on human driving. Partly it comes from people running FSD and intervening sometimes, and partly it comes from just passive observation of a people doing their own driving. When FSD runs, video feeds into the neural net and it outputs vehicle controls, that's it.

Learning to respond to gestures is just more training on video and car control data. It shouldn't be hard to believe given all the other things we're doing these days with large neural networks.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#344

Post by m463 »

deng wrote: post #54

And please keep in mind that this is pretty much in the optimal settings for FSD: great weather, huge streets, everything is as "car friendly" as it gets. I'd like to see FSD navigating an old Italian city, there's just no way. Even in car-friendly Germany you very often have streets with side-parking, which are too narrow to fit two cars, you need to communicate with oncoming cars, for instance by waving or flashing…

I would imagine the optimal settings would be open freeways with multiple lanes. (does fsd do that or is that freeway autopilot)

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#345

Post by m463 »

ddalex wrote: post #285
FiberBundle wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been lawsuits. I'm unable to find the actual documents, but this article [0] reports on it and has some unbelievable quotes in it. > Lin rejected Tesla's argument that LoSavio should have known earlier. "Although Tesla contends that it should have been obvious to LoSavio that his car needed lidar to self-drive and that his car did not have it, LoSavio plausibly alleges that he reasonably believed Tesla's c…

That's a very strange defense: you should have known we're lying you.

> Coca-Cola dismissed the allegations as "ridiculous," on the grounds that "no consumer could reasonably be misled into thinking Vitaminwater was a healthy beverage"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Brands#Legal_disputes

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#346

Post by m463 »

phantompeace wrote: post #138
drcode wrote: post #131

I have FSD v12 and for my drives, in my part of the country, I have to do a mild safety intervention maybe once a week (like, getting closer to another car than I'm comfortable with) sorry other people are having different experiences, but FSD is a significant quality of life improvement for me. Nothing is nicer than getting in the car after a long day and letting it chauffeur me home. (yes I still pay attention)

Nothing beats standing up after my day’s ended and walking to the living room ;)

I will sell you the pentultimate AI to navigate.

It will prevent dangerous sitations like:

- entering a room and stopping abruptly while wondering why you entered.

- stepping on legos.

- the coffee table shin scenario.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#347

Post by tjoff »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #339
mrkeen wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I was confused. "Hands-off" intially sounded like it was trustworthy to drive itself. But in this case it means the car now trusts you to trust it by not putting your hands on the wheel?

Whole point is for two systems to monitor the road. If you think Waymo doesn’t have thousands of people doing the same but remotely - I have bridge to sell you.

For Tesla yes, because it can't be trusted. Allowing you to not touch the wheel while still expecting you to jump in at any time isn't an improvement by any measure.

Any remote watcher can't be expected to avoid a crash in realtime.

Waymo is trusted to behave safely without supervision, but of course they monitor everything to validate and improve.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#348

Post by red75prime »

belter wrote: post #228
TheAlchemist wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give it some time ! When the dust settles, it will certainly be taught in business schools. And Musk will be in prison (not for FSD specifically). I watched the shareholders meeting yesterday - it was amazing. Elon repeated all the same things, he kept telling for the past 5 years at least, none of which is close to become a reality. And none was described in any tangible detail - all very vague promises. As for FSD,…

Somebody should have made a prank, and arrive to the meeting on a Mercedes EQS or S-Class sedan with Level 3 autonomy....

I would be very impressed if they'll manage to do it. This so-called Level 3 "autopilot" doesn't change lanes.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#349

Post by rldjbpin »

US tech has many such stories throughout the ages. but there is still a "cultural significance" to the novel ones like FSD imho. the vision marketing helped fuel the eventual development to make it a reality, whether we are there yet or not.

another place where this is in play (also in the ai space) is the openai mumbo-jumbo. while there is plenty of discussions on hn about the real efficacies of genai, we have to agree that it has motivated companies to drop bucket loads of resources into its advancements. same way, the auto industry and researchers got a reason to fund designing the cars of the future.

a smaller example where this worked out was the macbook air and ultrabooks space. while everybody was captivated by the original fitting inside a large envelope, it was an overheating, slow (even for its time) mess for many years. but by creating a clear market demand for the vision, we finally have devices that meet the original vision.

while i cannot stand behind the current driver of FSD tech (or ai for that matter), i respect their role as a catalyst in research.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#350

Post by cess11 »

henearkr wrote: post #338
cess11 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not very well informed in this area but I suspect there are no serious alternatives. Ignoring price, are there EV:s that can travel at least 500-600 kilometers on a charge but only weigh 1500 kilos and hence are rather simple to lift with consumer or improvised tooling? Are there EV:s without remote control and 'upgrades'? Can I change lamps and shift tires on such EV:s? Do they fit at least two child seats or is…

The existing EVs' specs are more than enough, don't worry. And yes most of these EVs are still pretty dumb, so you'd like them. It's just that Tesla got the hype. By the way, when you realize that you actually never drive for 500km straight without e.g. several 30min pauses to rest, which can be used for charging if you have an EV, you discover that you have much more options than you'd think to choose a model to buy…

Seems it's rather common that they're Internet connected when I look at some ads. Do you have an example?

30 min pauses? Why? I stop for five-ten minutes every four to five hours when I need to pee, and I can't rely on there being charging stations along the way.

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