Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 854 posts

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#341

Post by zucker42 »

tbrownaw wrote: post #189

> She said, "We were very careful, very deliberate about who we told, which was essentially almost no one in advance, other than obviously our legal team and so that's kind of what took us to to November 17." Did they not at least have a briefing packet or something prepared to give to major investors (ie, Microsoft) day-of if they were so worried about leaks that they couldn't get the major investors (ie, their own…

Major investors aren't the board's boss in this case because OpenAI is a nonprofit. Microsoft is incentivized to act against the goals nonprofit's charter (and in fact they did in this case).

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#342

Post by BLKNSLVR »

1024core wrote: post #135

> As staff threatened to quit and speculation swirled that Microsoft may poach Altman's team from OpenAI and hire him directly, the company's board brought back Altman as CEO less than a week later. To me, this is an important part of the story too, which Toner doesn't go into. I wonder why?

It does make it appear that the OpenAI staff were acting in protest of Sam Altman's, which seems to go against what's been happening recently with the "real brains that understand AI/LLM/ML" leaving in a procession.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#343

Post by benreesman »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #333
benreesman wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m no huge fan of the bond villains in general, but this thread isn’t about Musk or whoever being a dick. And even if it were, Musk builds the best rockets ever and stuff like that and to a first approximation knows how they work. Mark at a minimum is the Corp Dev CEO of a generation and I’d argue more. I’d argue he is the first person to create an accurate-ish mental model mapping IRL human mechanism design into a…

[flagged]

I don’t think that studying the history of the technology business makes one a tabloid journalist.

I apologize if my remark came off smartass, I can see how it could.

If you feel I could be more constructive I’m legitimately (no sarcasm whatsoever) open to suggestions: it’s a tricky topic and I strike the wrong note more often than the right one.

Certainly I intended no personal offense to someone I haven’t met.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#345

Post by bmitc »

tibbar wrote: post #297
bmitc wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I answered that scenario though. I'm fine, as a board, letting employees who want to hold the company hostage over a CEO that the board fired walk. The board's major mistake was not communicating why he was let go. My guess is that the likely reason why employees threatened to go was that they felt Altman had the best chances of making the for-profit arm's shares skyrocket. As a non-profit company's board, I'd be fin…

Wait, are you simply unaware of the widely reported circumstances in the company at that time? 95% of employees signed a letter to the board stating that they would leave the company if Sam was not brought back [1]. Ilya Sutskever, who was on the board and voted to remove Sam, changed his mind and signed the letter. The board named Mira Murati interim CEO; then she signed the letter, the board fired her, and hired an…

No, I am not simply unaware. I said my understanding, which appears to be wrong. Thanks for the details. However, I am still confused on which employees of which company. There is the non-profit OpenAI and for-profit OpenAI. Are these articles talking about everything or just the for-profit branch?

I still wager that things would have been different had the board clearly stated their reasons. Doesn't make any sense that they did it months later. The signing of the petition seems mostly group think and political. I would guess that the majority of employees would have followed through.

Lastly, I still can't say any of this makes any sense. Why did the employees even care about Altman? It still seems all very strange to leave your job for someone who doesn't seem to have ever said anything meaningful.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#346

Post by WalterBright »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #277
benreesman wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s utterly mundane, completely common knowledge for those who have been around long enough to have watched both the start and end on Loopt that Altman is a dark-triad sociopath with one marketable skill: (in pg’s words) “becoming powerful”. Guy can’t code, can’t design, can’t publish, can’t climb a traditional corporate ladder with even modest guardrails against fraud, can’t keep his hand out of the cookie jar. Can…

I think it might be time to turn back the clock a bit and revisit some of the things pg said way back when he was pitching Sam Altman to lead YC and the general reaction was "...who?" 2008: "You could parachute [Sam Altman] into an island full of cannibals and come back in 5 years and he'd be the king. If you're Sam Altman, you don't have to be profitable to convey to investors that you'll succeed with or without the…

> amoral wealth-hoarders

They're not hoarding wealth. They don't have any Scrooge McDuck cash faults. Their money is all invested, i.e. put to work creating things that people want.

> moralists ... capitalists

History shows us that societies based on morals (religious, ideological) fare extremely poorly compared with societies based on rights (free markets).

Like it or not, for a large, prosperous society you must have big business.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#347

Post by bmitc »

cma wrote: post #274
bmitc wrote: post #86

What is still bizarre is how the board brought him back. I just don't understand that from any angle. It is very clear that he lied and schemed. So why was there any issue? He had no power once fired. If another company wants to hire him, fine. If he wants to make platitudes on Twitter, who cares? Employees threatened to leave? Let them. I imagine many of them wouldn't, and if they did, you could just rehire and find…

In deciding to hire him back, Helen Toner said OpenAI lawyers said she and other members of the board could be personally liable if the company lost a lot of money over keeping him out.

I suppose that would be a reasonable reason on a practical level. However, how is a board liable for that? The CEO lies and intentionally withholds information, employees strangely hold the company hostage, and yet it's the board held liable? The board governed the non-profit OpenAI.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#348

Post by rglover »

Classic NPD behavior from the sound of it (triangulating board members, lying/withholding, etc). Wouldn't be surprised if the return was predicated by promises to do/be better or extreme gaslighting.

Worth people studying the disorder and learning to spot it—can save you a lot of trouble.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#349

Post by whateveracct »

viking123 wrote: post #316
benreesman wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s utterly mundane, completely common knowledge for those who have been around long enough to have watched both the start and end on Loopt that Altman is a dark-triad sociopath with one marketable skill: (in pg’s words) “becoming powerful”. Guy can’t code, can’t design, can’t publish, can’t climb a traditional corporate ladder with even modest guardrails against fraud, can’t keep his hand out of the cookie jar. Can…

I always get the Sam Bankman-Fried vibes from him

Sam Altman wouldn't get caught

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#350

Post by rPlayer6554 »

zucker42 wrote: post #341
tbrownaw wrote: post #189

> She said, "We were very careful, very deliberate about who we told, which was essentially almost no one in advance, other than obviously our legal team and so that's kind of what took us to to November 17." Did they not at least have a briefing packet or something prepared to give to major investors (ie, Microsoft) day-of if they were so worried about leaks that they couldn't get the major investors (ie, their own…

Major investors aren't the board's boss in this case because OpenAI is a nonprofit. Microsoft is incentivized to act against the goals nonprofit's charter (and in fact they did in this case).

As much as on paper they aren't the board's boss, based on how events turned out they effectively were. They had leverage over the board to get what they want.
Post reply on HN