341–350 of 996 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly, it's all about the ecosystem and very little about the language features
Disagree the adoption of C++ was more about Moore's law than ecosystem, although having compilers that were beginning to not be completely rubbish also helped.
> Rust gamedev ecosystem lives on hype I've been saying this for years. I've tried to get into Rust multiple times the past few years and one of the things I've tried was gamedev with Rust (specifically the library ggez when it was still being worked on, and a little bit of Bevy). I admittedly never got far, but I gave it a solid shot. My experience was instantly terrible. Slow compile times and iterations, huge pack…
I'm a Rust fan (mostly for embedded firmware with minimal deps), but even after 10 years of playing with the language it's not clear to me that advanced GUI or gamedev fits well with the borrow checker. It requires a significant paradigm shift in architecture, and I'm not convinced it's worth making that shift, especially if your application can tolerate a garbage collector (which many games and most UI apps can).
This article describes almost exactly why I think gradual typing is actually a good thing. Type checkers shouldn't get in the way of your code compiling. Yes, the language has to be designed with this property from the beginning. Yes, you should always enforce complete checking in CI. But you should also be able to try half-baked ideas.
> Type checkers shouldn't get in the way of your code compiling. I don't get it, what's the point of type checking if not to reject invalid programs? The point of a type system isn't simply to add annotations to a programmer (and some type systems can omit them entirely) but to define the subset of programs that are correct within the set of all the programs that can be expressed. I understand (and have used in produ…
The article addresses this, multiple times. In brief, the "poor structure" isn't the problem.
That's a good article. He's right about many things. I've been writing a metaverse client in Rust for several years now. Works with Second Life and Open Simulator servers. Here's some video.[1] It's about 45,000 lines of safe Rust. Notes: * There are very few people doing serious 3D game work in Rust. There's Veloren, and my stuff, and maybe a few others. No big, popular titles. I'd expected some AAA title to be writ…
> I'd expected some AAA title to be written in Rust by now. Why? Those kinds of game engines are enormous amounts of code, and there's little incentive to rewrite. I do strongly disagree that we aren't ever going to see large-scale game development in Rust; it just takes time. Whether games adopt an engine is largely about that engine's maturity rather than anything about the language. Bevy is quite young; 0.13 doesn…
While not confirmation, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a few nuggets of Q3 in that code base still doing some of the basics. That would be really cool if it is true.
It seems like unless you are someone like John Carmack or most of Nintendo, game dev tools are about what can get the best results quickest rather than any sort of technical specifics. It is a business after all.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Disagree the adoption of C++ was more about Moore's law than ecosystem, although having compilers that were beginning to not be completely rubbish also helped.
Also C++ could be adopted incrementally by C developers. You could use it as “C with classes”, or just use operator overloading to make vector math more tolerable, or whatever subset that you happened to like. So there’s really three forces at play in making C++ the standard: 1) The Microsoft ecosystem. They literally stopped supporting C by not adopting the C99 standard in their compiler. If you wanted any modern co…
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/c11-and-c17-standard-...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also C++ could be adopted incrementally by C developers. You could use it as “C with classes”, or just use operator overloading to make vector math more tolerable, or whatever subset that you happened to like. So there’s really three forces at play in making C++ the standard: 1) The Microsoft ecosystem. They literally stopped supporting C by not adopting the C99 standard in their compiler. If you wanted any modern co…
I'd say Rust does have that big ticket ecosystem push. Microsoft has been embracing Rust lately, with things like official Windows bindings [1]. The bigger problem is just inertia: large game engines are enormous. [1]: https://github.com/microsoft/windows-rs
I noticed this with Rust. That sometimes Rust forces you to pull some things up the call stack in order to access them. Even if the semantics of what you do is the same Rust doesn't let you have things in arbitrary places.
It's super weird and possibly annoying when you hit it for the first time but if you stop and think about it, the place where Rust forces you to put it is a really good place from architectural standpoint.
It basically prevents you from taking parts of a thing and delegating responsibility for them to some children, which seems restrictive, but it provides you with consistent structure of where to look for things that are responsible for something.
Rust is restrictive in so many subtle ways (and some obvious ones) but I haven't seen one where it leads to worse outcomes. Maybe I have too little experience.
Starting by saying I fundamentally agree wrt iteration speed. This is ultimately why [C/C++]/Lua was such a thing for a while, and it seems quite plausible that you could benefit from a core engine in rust bound to a scripting language. But ultimately I sense the subtext here is much the same as with other Rust problems: the object oriented baby has been thrown out with the bathwater, often in the name of premature o…
I've been playing around with an idea about OOP for awhile, not sure if it'll ring true or not but I'll run it up the flagpole for feedback. I think FP is a great way to program actions and agency but OOP is a great way to model the world. I like Rust's trait system because the polymorphism is based on what you want an object to do not what it is . But when you're creating models of the world it's usually really conv…
Back when I worked properly on big games the UI libs would often be trees of widgets with injectable functions for modifying the rendering, which is actually one of the points in this blog the writer would like. (The UI lib of classic Sims was exactly like that). These days the stuff I've done, although entirely in JS, at https://luduxia.com/ follows that pattern for the 3D components at least. The world is defined in an almost classic scene graph and then behaviour is added by attaching functions to pieces, which can be composed functionally.
Much of the anti-OOP noise is the result of people that have suffered from others creating hierarchies of the world too literally. Quite why it proves so difficult for developers to slow down and think about the right course of action is beyond me. They're also staggeringly resistant to changing afterwards.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Type checkers shouldn't get in the way of your code compiling. I don't get it, what's the point of type checking if not to reject invalid programs? The point of a type system isn't simply to add annotations to a programmer (and some type systems can omit them entirely) but to define the subset of programs that are correct within the set of all the programs that can be expressed. I understand (and have used in produ…
>I don't get it, what's the point of type checking if not to reject invalid programs? Because not every program that doesn't compile is necessarily invalid.
I think that more programmers should be aware of this point. Rust doesn't reject code that will crash, it rejects code that it cannot prove won't crash.
The code being rejected might be just fine (as numerous examples in the article showed).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also C++ could be adopted incrementally by C developers. You could use it as “C with classes”, or just use operator overloading to make vector math more tolerable, or whatever subset that you happened to like. So there’s really three forces at play in making C++ the standard: 1) The Microsoft ecosystem. They literally stopped supporting C by not adopting the C99 standard in their compiler. If you wanted any modern co…
I'd say Rust does have that big ticket ecosystem push. Microsoft has been embracing Rust lately, with things like official Windows bindings [1]. The bigger problem is just inertia: large game engines are enormous. [1]: https://github.com/microsoft/windows-rs
Also game engines emphatically don't have to be huge. Look at Balatro shipping on Love2d.