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Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

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Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#341

Post by tuututu »

andjd wrote: post #15

One important thing to know is that the venues/artists often get a kickback of part of the Ticketmaster fees. In other words, the artists, venues, producers, and Ticketmaster are in cahoots to fleece fans for as much money as possible, and Ticketmaster is willing to play the 'bad guy' and take the blame for high prices, and they get to keep a bigger slice of the overall pie than they would in a highly competitive mar…

Oh yeah. I remember Trent Reznor writing an angry social media post about this probably ten years ago, more or less explaining it all. Ticketmaster only sells a small portion of a show's tickets through their official website. Most go straight to "aftermarket" outlets that Ticketmaster indirectly controls, and artists know about this and take their share of the markup.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#342

Post by quesera »

lolinder wrote: post #212
carlosjobim wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Combatting scalping is the easiest thing ever. Just put the name of the attendee on each ticket and if you want to be nice you can have a buyback period until a certain date before the show, where the venue purchases back your ticket if you can't go.

And then what, check the ID of 50k people at the door?

They already check IDs of every entrant.

Also, in the US, your driver's license has a 2D barcode on the back which encodes your name.

The venue ticket has a QR code or similar which could also encode your name.

They already scan the venue ticket QR code. They could also scan your ID barcode, and beep differently if the names do not match.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#343

Post by dragonwriter »

bradchris wrote: post #327
MichaelZuo wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has the DOJ ever won an argument against just vertical integration in the entire history of the US?

The Paramount Decrees way back in the 1940s/1950s: that's why Hollywood studios cannot produce movies and own the theaters which exhibit them. It's also similar to the (much more complex) reasons TV Service Providers (DirectTV, Spectrum, XFinity et. al) are separate from TV Networks, and why you don't see Disney trying to buy, say, DirectTV. Of course, streaming upended almost all of that.

> It’s also similar to the (much more complex) reasons TV Service Providers (DirectTV, Spectrum, XFinity et. al) are separate from TV Networks

Tell me more about how the “TV Service Provider” Xfinity (a subsidiary of Comcast) is separate from the various TV networks run by NBC Universal, LLC (a subsidiary of Comcast).

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#344

Post by UncleEntity »

SoftTalker wrote: post #306
andjd wrote: post #15

One important thing to know is that the venues/artists often get a kickback of part of the Ticketmaster fees. In other words, the artists, venues, producers, and Ticketmaster are in cahoots to fleece fans for as much money as possible, and Ticketmaster is willing to play the 'bad guy' and take the blame for high prices, and they get to keep a bigger slice of the overall pie than they would in a highly competitive mar…

Concerts aren't a necessity. As much as Ticketmaster/LiveNation "fleece" fans, secondhand sellers a/k/a scalpers do it even more. The demand is there, if the prices were too high the tickets would not sell. If you don't like what a concert ticket price costs, don't go.

> If you don't like what a concert ticket price costs, don't go.

Yep, that's what I do.

What you are failing to address is the artists being harmed by not participating in this 'fleecing' scheme.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/pearl-jam-taki...

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#345

Post by mixmastamyk »

azinman2 wrote: post #166

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: kill the secondary market. Live nation should be broken up but a big driver of cost is the scalpers/hedgers who buy out everything and put it on StubHub. Just make all sales final. Check IDs at the door, or use technology to speed up identity verification (mail out rfids, etc). Sucks if you get sick or whatever, just like many things in life where you cancel last minute. It’…

My whole life, scalpers have always come thru when I didn't plan far ahead.

We don't need any more surveillance, data-mining and sales, thank you. Your stated cure is worse than the disease.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#346

Post by quesera »

phone8675309 wrote: post #117
lesuorac wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's good to be calling non-government charges a tax. Fee or Commission works fine here. The line item for sellers/buyers agent isn't "tax" when you buy/sell a house despite it being a percentage.

Let's call it what it really is - rent They're rentseeking

That's not what rent-seeking means.

They're just charging exorbitant fees to a customer base with no alternatives.

Like prison phone companies.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#347

Post by datascienced »

TheGRS wrote: post #180
bobthepanda wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stadiums are multibillion dollar affairs that take years and lots of public financing. SoFi stadium was $5.5B. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_stadium...

Just being devil's advocate since I also don't necessarily agree that TSwift could build a venue in every market, but there are plenty of large-scale events that use open fields and tents and aren't going to cost billions to setup.

With Tay’s wealth she could buy/build a stadium or two for sure! Maybe 10 smaller ones.

But to build / buy thousands with a real estate value in the 100s of billions you would need something like a EFT.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#348

Post by dragonwriter »

quesera wrote: post #346
phone8675309 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's call it what it really is - rent They're rentseeking

That's not what rent-seeking means. They're just charging exorbitant fees to a customer base with no alternatives. Like prison phone companies.

> That's not what rent-seeking means.

> They’re just charging exorbitant fees to a customer base with no alternatives.

The term for that is “monopoly rent”, it is a subtype of economic rents (which are distinct from, but overlap, “rents” of goods or services for a finite time as distinct from sales.)

Actions taken in pursuit of economic rents are called “rent-seeking”.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#349

Post by crabmusket »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #311
crabmusket wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if, on average, scalpers didn't get their payout, then they wouldn't take the risk right? Unless scalpers as a class are economically irrational?

> if, on average, scalpers didn't get their payout, then they wouldn't take the risk The point is they can get their pay-out while the venue/artist and consumers win. Scalper gets paid. Venue and artist get stability. Consumer who buys from the scalper gets availability. And the other 90% of consumers get cheaper prices.

I see, I guess that makes sense in theory.

Re: Justice Department to file antitrust suit against Live Nation

#350

Post by kelnos »

bradchris wrote: post #327
MichaelZuo wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has the DOJ ever won an argument against just vertical integration in the entire history of the US?

The Paramount Decrees way back in the 1940s/1950s: that's why Hollywood studios cannot produce movies and own the theaters which exhibit them. It's also similar to the (much more complex) reasons TV Service Providers (DirectTV, Spectrum, XFinity et. al) are separate from TV Networks, and why you don't see Disney trying to buy, say, DirectTV. Of course, streaming upended almost all of that.

You seem to be correct about the studio/theater bit, but Comcast owns both NBC and Xfinity, so clearly that bit of intended separation ain't working.
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