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Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

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Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#341

Post by rascul »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #333
coalteddy wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is probably because, in the EU, passenger rail transport is prioritised over cargo. For example in Switzwerland rail cargo is mainly transported during the night because thats the only time the network isn't working at it's limit for the passenger trains. In Canada, to my understanding, it's the other way round where passenger trains have been reduced because of the need for more cargo train trips. The USA…

In the USA most railroad are owned by the railroad company. When Amtrak wants to use a piece of rail they pay the railway. But the USA is VAST. Freight trains are LONG. Not much of America's West is actually double track. And when you have a shorter Amtrack and a long freight train the Amtrack loses. The Amtrack has to wait until the freight train has passed. As the freight trains run on PSR [1] there is no fixed tim…

Amtrak blames freight trains for not following the law and the DoJ for not enforcing the law. Which is just one side of the story.

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#342

Post by [deleted] »

capitainenemo wrote: post #258
beedeebeedee wrote: post #247

Build more railroads. (I used to work for an autonomous truck company, and when you factor in the cost of roads in addition to the development of the trucks, it makes absolutely no sense to do autonomous trucking when you could do trains. As a culture, we've been brainwashed not to fund trains. We collectively spend billions and billions on roads but would not dare spend money to build more tracks. It is shocking and…

Hm. I did a quick search on freight percentages, EU vs US and google gave me this snippet off the top hit. "46 percent of European freight goes by truck while only 11 percent goes by rail, while in the United States more than 40 percent goes by rail while just 30 percent goes on the highway." Seems US is doing pretty well on prioritising freight rail transport, despite brainwashing, at least compared to europe. Which…

[deleted]

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#343

Post by justworkout »

silvestrov wrote: post #10

If he thinks driving cars in cities is the easiest problem, he does not have experience driving a car in a European city with lots of cyclists and pedestrians. Driving a car in inner Copenhagen is a stressful situation due to the insane number of cyclist you have to watch out for, see https://youtu.be/FaySp9i2zMA?t=113

This is one of the biggest reasons I greatly prefer public transportation in cities. I feel stressed knowing there's a 100% chance someone on a bike is going to actively zoom out of nowhere right in front of me and pretend they're the only person around for miles. So many bicyclists and scooter riders seem actively suicidal, which is okay and I respect their right to end their life on their own terms, except the law regards car drivers as criminally negligent.

I'd rather take a train where all but the craziest bicyclists venture or let a bus driver handle the consequences of hitting someone. When I'm traveling around the countryside, I take public transit to the edge of the city then rent a car.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#344

Post by adrianN »

ChainOfFools wrote: post #284
Varriount wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kinds of noise do the trains produce? Do you think there are any ways to lessen it, and/or have any been implemented? (I'm thinking something like sound barriers).

Not a rail expert, not even a casual spectator. But my unstudied impression is that the noise that penetrates the most is the ultra-low frequency rumble that comes from the diesel side of the drivetrain, with a secondary source being steel on steel squealing of bogeys around bends at the minimal range of their tolerance. But the latter doesn't have the penetrating power of the former, not by a long shot, so to elimin…

If you want especially quiet operations you can put rubber wheels on trains too.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#345

Post by Qwertious »

eru wrote: post #323
paulmd wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long-haul trucking is potentially easier but we already have a great system for delivering large amounts of cargo along fixed, guided pathways. The only problems that making it run on roads instead of rails solves is political - the US is allergic to owning and funding rails but will happily dump tens of billions into its government-owned roads every year. Short-haul trucking (in-city delivery etc) is where the value…

> The only problems that making it run on roads instead of rails solves is political - [...] You say it like this is a point against autonomous trucking? Technical problems are solvable. Political and social problems are basically intractable in practice. If autonomous driving can turn 'delivering large amounts of cargo along fixed, guided pathways' from a political into a technical problem, then this would be a jack…

>No? Plenty of eg cars exceed minimum safety standards. Some brands, like Volvo, are even explicitly sold on safety.

In the context you're discussing, that form of safety isn't an inefficiency but a marketable feature. That doesn't mean that safety in general is a marketable feature.

Those safety standards tend to omit the safety of any pedestrians being hit - otherwise, cars would be far lighter (and with bonnets far lower), because a heavier car benefits the occupants in a crash at the expense of whoever they're hitting.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#346

Post by manquer »

p_j_w wrote: post #309
mcmoor wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that trains is already hyper focused on cargo that's why the passenger experience is so terrible

For most heavy passenger rail like Amtrak and things like Caltrain in the Bay Area, it's because those trains use the same tracks as freight companies and the freight traffic takes priority.

That is not true for Caltrain .

Caltrain tracks and right of way was purchased in 1991 from Southern Pacific (now Union Pacific) by Peninsula Corridor Joint Powers Board which is basically Muni, SamTrans and VTA for most of the route.

Here is a detailed map of who owns what https://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2009/01/caltrain-right-of-...

While it is true that Southern Pacific owned the line for most its history it was always built as commuter line. Union Pacific is only allowed to operate 3 freight lines per day on weekdays now.

Freight does not take priority, historically freight did not fund the development of the line, Characterizing it a freight line with passengers added on to it is not a fair representation.

--

I cannot speak for Amtrack, I don't know the network personally and it is also big and very composite a network to make any general statements like for Caltrain. However in general commuter heavy lines were built as commuter lines very early one because there was economic case to do so. It is the only the long distance lines which do not have the economic viability on their own that can only run on freight lines.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#347

Post by stvltvs »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #333
coalteddy wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is probably because, in the EU, passenger rail transport is prioritised over cargo. For example in Switzwerland rail cargo is mainly transported during the night because thats the only time the network isn't working at it's limit for the passenger trains. In Canada, to my understanding, it's the other way round where passenger trains have been reduced because of the need for more cargo train trips. The USA…

In the USA most railroad are owned by the railroad company. When Amtrak wants to use a piece of rail they pay the railway. But the USA is VAST. Freight trains are LONG. Not much of America's West is actually double track. And when you have a shorter Amtrack and a long freight train the Amtrack loses. The Amtrack has to wait until the freight train has passed. As the freight trains run on PSR [1] there is no fixed tim…

AFAIK, Amtrak discontinued passenger service between LA and Las Vegas years ago.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#348

Post by katbyte »

lmpdev wrote: post #332
twelvechairs wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just use electrified trains in the first place, like most of the modern world

Electric doesn't eliminate cornering and braking noises unfortunately, which I find as more pronounced open problems

That noise is far easier to mitigate with sound barriers

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#349

Post by Qwertious »

sneak wrote: post #181
FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great idea and the first I've heard of it. Set a maximum weight of 5,000 lbs for an ordinary license. Minivans will come in just under the line. Small SUVs like the CRV or RAV4 will be allowed, as will small trucks like the Ford Maverick. Indeed, most of those vehicles are under 4,000 lbs. Even some larger SUVs like the Honda Pilot or (just barely) the Toyota 4runner get under the bar. Even a low-specced F-…

A distracted driver can kill pedestrians just as easily in a 3999lb vehicle.

>A distracted driver can kill pedestrians just as easily in a 3999lb vehicle.

No they can't - a lighter vehicle has a slightly harder time killing people. It's still incredibly easy, but the pedestrian fatality rates do go down the lighter the vehicle is.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#350

Post by Dylan16807 »

eru wrote: post #317
factormeta wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a culture, we've been brainwashed not to fund trains. The billionaires are surely investing heavily on trains and farms.

Some of them are. Which goes to show that money doesn't have that much of an influence in politics, despite popular opinion to the contrary.

I don't understand why you think it shows that?
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