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Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

bloomberg.com

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Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#341

Post by pmontra »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #339

I've owned a couple of EVs in my life, and I love them and would never go back to owning an ICE car. At the same time, I don't think I would ever want to rent an EV. Do I know that wherever I'm staying I'll be able to charge? Sure they said they had a charger but what if it's busted? Also, these days if I'm renting a car (as opposed to just Ubering) I'm usually going to use it quite a bit - having to deal with range…

So you never traveled with your EVs and used them only between places you either knew had a sure place to recharge or didn't have to because they were in range to come back home?

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#342

Post by ender341341 »

distortedsignal wrote: post #335
ender341341 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other possible reasons - We're in a recession (at least if you aren't upper middle class or above) - Dealers are still acting like there's a supply shortage, so prices are still up but lots are full - Everyone (pretty much) but tesla has commited to migrating to NACS, so if you buy a car now you'll need an adapter, and depending on where you are tesla's chargers are have half the speed if you're using the adapter (li…

Tesla's changers are *half(?) the speed...? I hadn't heard this.

most existing tesla chargers are 400v (I believe the cybertruck is their first to use 800v), so for other fast charging cars (like kia/hyundai GMP based ev6/ioniq 5) you only get half the speed, so as they update this will start to fall away as an issue.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#343

Post by oxfordmale »

jackmott42 wrote: post #332
fsckboy wrote: post #322

I've been seeing a lot of headlines the last month about demand for EVs falling. Of course, it could just be a PR campaign by Big Fossil, I'm not in a position to judge that. I had another idea about it and I'm wondering what other people think: by buying Twitter/X, Musk has waded deeply into the culture war, and we see on HN plenty of people who just can't stand to see his name. It seems a sizable community, could t…

Definitely Teslas became less attractive to a lot of people with Musks behavior in the last year. But also interest rates are up, and EV enthusiast market may be saturated, so now you have to win over just regular people.

I don't like Musk, but I am also under no illusion that CEOs of other major car companies are any better. They may just hide their opinions a little better than Musk.

The reality is that Tesla aren't very good cars from both reliability, price and range perspective. Musk has done a brilliant job hyping the car, but reality starts setting in. For example, FSD will likely remain in beta for years.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#344

Post by afavour »

atkailash wrote: post #264
CharlieDigital wrote: post #183

Not sure about the economics for the rental companies, but for a consumer, there are practical reasons why electric aren't quite as attractive. When you rent a car, more than likely you will be in unfamiliar territory. So it seems that it just adds to the stress of travel and yet another thing you have to pay attention to. Will my hotel have charging spots? Will I be able to charge at the client site I'm visiting? Ho…

I don’t see how that’s different than needing to figure out gas station locations and not knowing how much you’ll use between points since you don’t know traffic or efficiency of that vehicle.

Primary difference is that fueling up with gas is very quick. Charging is not (and is very variable depending on which chargers are available)

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#345

Post by throwaway15858 »

fsckboy wrote: post #322

I've been seeing a lot of headlines the last month about demand for EVs falling. Of course, it could just be a PR campaign by Big Fossil, I'm not in a position to judge that. I had another idea about it and I'm wondering what other people think: by buying Twitter/X, Musk has waded deeply into the culture war, and we see on HN plenty of people who just can't stand to see his name. It seems a sizable community, could t…

There are a lot of reasons, many of them bureaucratic.

If you own your own home in an urban locale with a garage and drive more than 12k miles a year an EV is probably perfect for you. If you live in a condo good luck dealing with the condo board to install a charger. If you park on the street tough luck charging. If you don't drive enough gas is cheaper. If you drive too much you will spend too much time charging.

The problem is that the number of people that fit in this category isn't that big. The market may be saturating.

The other issue is modern cars generally. The average age of a car on the road is going up because modern cars are too complicated and too expensive.

A large reason for this is IP laws. I can still buy parts for my 90's car because the aftermarket still supports it. Modern car parts are full of computers and the aftermarket will never support them because they can't ship copyrighted code. After 10 years they will be scrapped because there will be no parts available. We will end up with a bimodal car market. 90's cars and cars Everything in a car used to be covered by patents but they mostly expired in the 70's. Now it's copyright which will outlive us all.

https://finance.yahoo.com/average-age-vehicles-u-roads-13030...

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#346

Post by pmontra »

hibikir wrote: post #263
throw7 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I was told EV's would be much more reliable and cheaper to repair?

And they tend to be, along with needing less maintenance. Tesla, however, has a ludicrous parts system compared to any traditional car company, for parts that have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the car is using an electric powertrain. Ask for the cost of a new front bumper... it's not pretty. And as far as fender bender risk goes, it also doesn't help that a Tesla is, in practice, far more powerful at l…

> They are also probably unaccustomed to the car's behavior when you lift the gas pedal completely

It's been at least 4 years since I drove an EV so I don't remember what they do. I expect the car to slow down and eventually come to a halt. I remember that I wasn't surprised by anything in particular so it's probably what it did. What do Teslas do?

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#347

Post by Scoundreller »

paddy_m wrote: post #312
cyberax wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hertz self-insures.

One of the reasons large rental companies self insure is so that they can do repairs in house without listing cars as salvaged. They make it back on resale I think I read this from car dealership guy.

That's (yet) another reason why I don't buy the insurance that covers incidents of my own fault for my beater. A crushed bumper will deem it salvage and the insurer will take it away but I could still drive it (and from a relative's experience, at much lower cost than the insurer would pay).

But on a newer vehicle, it takes a lot of damage to get branded salvage.

Also makes sense for Hertz to do it in-house as they'll have a somewhat standardized fleet. Can "borrow" a rear bumper from a vehicle in for more serious heavier-duty front-end repair to get at least 1 back in the fleet.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#348

Post by redwall_hp »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #123
rich_sasha wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME rental car agreements prohibit taking them "off road" which might include tracks. No idea about US (EDIT not Japan) specifically.

> Japan Nitpick: unless I just popped into an alternate timeline, Kauai is American [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauai

It's an understandable mistake, as I'm sure Kauai and other parts of Hawaii are kawaii.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#349

Post by surfmike »

ender341341 wrote: post #327
fsckboy wrote: post #322

I've been seeing a lot of headlines the last month about demand for EVs falling. Of course, it could just be a PR campaign by Big Fossil, I'm not in a position to judge that. I had another idea about it and I'm wondering what other people think: by buying Twitter/X, Musk has waded deeply into the culture war, and we see on HN plenty of people who just can't stand to see his name. It seems a sizable community, could t…

Other possible reasons - We're in a recession (at least if you aren't upper middle class or above) - Dealers are still acting like there's a supply shortage, so prices are still up but lots are full - Everyone (pretty much) but tesla has commited to migrating to NACS, so if you buy a car now you'll need an adapter, and depending on where you are tesla's chargers are have half the speed if you're using the adapter (li…

I thought NACS _is_ Tesla's charger? i.e. they're been migrated from the start?

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#350

Post by Scoundreller »

paddy_m wrote: post #314
ibejoeb wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a brand popped up and offered a gasoline ICE with old toyota-level reliability and longevity, and without electronics (save for maybe bluetooth for some music) I'd pay a sizeable premium for it.

I'd like to think I would. I hope new buyers would.I would stick with used toyotas. I suspect the manufacturers know this and build accordingly.

Problem for Hertz is that everyone wants a Toyota. Why sell a fleet at fleet pricing when you have 100k in the retail waitlist queue.
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