Things are about to get worse for generative AI • Hacker News Board

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#341

Post by pxoe » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 3:11 PM UTC

there's an easy fix. the easiest. just don't use data that you don't have the rights to use. apparently that's just impossible.

"but what if we want to scrape the entire web and something makes it in anyway? see, that is impossible". well that's just saying "fuck it" and using bad data anyway. that's not an actual effort to "not use data you can't use" - there was just no way there'd be a 'rights cleared' way to use the entire web anyway. that is impossible. using a clean dataset is not impossible. it's very possible.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#342

Post by WhiteNoiz3 » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 3:12 PM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #309

pc86 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And lost, if memory serves.

No, Google agreed to a licensing agreement and removed the direct links to the images.

IMO, this is probably the goal of the NYTimes lawsuits as well

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#343

Post by oglop » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 3:13 PM UTC

So what? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills when I read these things. You all do realize the same thing happens in your mind with those same prompts right? That’s kinda how it works. Who is surprised by this? Yeah no shit it can kinda reproduce the text it was trained on, so do I! That’s how that works. And the NYT knew for a long ass time this thing was ingesting. Literally saw this in the marketing when I signed up last year.

I wasn’t shocked when I noticed I could query it about ANY math textbook I owned and it could talk with me about it. I did t bitch and gripe, I enjoyed it and have conversations.

Anyway, I’m in the minority I guess. I love that I can talk with it about books and news.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#344

Post by madamelic » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 3:14 PM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #240

MOARDONGZPLZ wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you ever actually use generative AI to pirate something when you could just torrent it? While there may be an argument that generative AI is infringing copyright, it is not really a very good tool for it. How do you square this with literally the first image in the OP showing side by side GPT reproing copyrighted work? imo a good modern art project would be someone making a website that “archives” NYT article…

Here is a picture of Darth Vader: https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/darth-vader-main_45... Please show me a prompt that reproduces it. Also to pass this test, it has to be just as easy as right clicking "download image" The images in the article are done in reverse. They find a prompt that shows a copyrighted character and then search for the matching image. That's not how piracy is done.

They are also being deceptive in my opinion. They should show their entire chat because if you take "animated sponge", it alone does not generate SpongeBob. The author almost certainly further prodded & guided the DALL-E to generate those images.

The author, I believe, is being purposefully deceptive and hoping people who don't use DALL-E see "animated sponge" generating a SpongeBob look-alike and think they should be burned.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#345

Post by rco8786 » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 3:14 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #89

rco8786 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Likewise, how difficult is it to just use descriptive tools to describe Mario-like images [1] and then remove these results from anyone prompting for "video game plumber"? This approaches impossibility at scale.

Trademarks already include text descriptions and images of the item being trademarked. This is already in the USPTO database.

Exactly. An enormous database of generic, unmoderated text descriptions. Basically any question you ask will be “covered” by some trademark description somewhere.

Not to mention that the cost and scale of checking every query against that entire database is … not approachable.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#346

Post by AC_8675309 » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 3:16 PM UTC

So the models overfit the training data, essentially memorizing, instead of generalizing?

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#347

Post by rco8786 » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #92

rco8786 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

creation competition. I agree with your premise but the chess analogy falls flat. We might, legitimately, see an enormous dropoff in people creating original works of literary, musical, and visual art (without AI).

This is an centuries old argument. Most people don’t create to make money, they create because they __have__ to. If those motivated purely by money stop creating little of value will be lost

I didn’t say anything about money or the motivation to create?

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#348

Post by RandomLensman » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

squidbeak wrote: post #142

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a few copyright holders By which you mean every copyright holder. > AGI in the near future Something that is purely speculative, undefined, and has been promised in the near future for 50+ years. I don't see copyright holders lying down for someone else's benefit and I don't see governments gutting copyright, contract law, and several other avenues of protection that copyright holders can deploy in the name of some…

If a child is instructed to read a copyrighted work at school, which later becomes a factor in his own derivative works, he won't be in breach of copyright. Why should other intelligent entities be prevented from reading copyrighted works and gaining whatever there is to gain from those works the way any human might?

Humans and machines are regulated and viewed differently all the time.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#349

Post by rco8786 » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #108

sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an centuries old argument. Most people don’t create to make money, they create because they __have__ to. If those motivated purely by money stop creating little of value will be lost

Most people who create for a living aren't motivated purely by money, but are driven by the necessities of capitalism to do so. You're presenting a false dichotomy, pretending to care about the quality of art, but really like everyone, you just want other people's work for free. Great art - especially in modern times when that art involves expensive education (which if you're American must be paid for with interest)…

I didn’t say anything about money. Why are people talking about money

I’m not pretending anything. I’m just making a statement about what might happen. I don’t personally care much one way or the other.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#350

Post by Retr0id » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

amazingman wrote: post #203

fallingknife wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that tech was not destroyed by regulation. It was replaced by the superior tech of torrents.

The company, however, was destroyed. Along with any possibility for a similar company to exist (for very long).

Good. Truly powerful ideas do not need to be an appendage of a corporation in order to succeed.