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Generation Junk

walterkirn.substack.com

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Re: Generation Junk

#341

Post by jesterson »

woopwoop wrote: post #12

So this article implies that a number of things that we buy previously were built to last longer, and indeed did last longer. The first few examples are kitchen appliances. In this case I don't really know, but I'm at least willing to listen. Ultimately the evidence is people responding to a thread on Twitter where he solicited complaints. Not so compelling. But then he mentions a "hybrid sedan". Here I'm aware of th…

> Modern cars are much, much more reliable and durable than ones built at any time in the past

May I know the timeframe and your experience on which you base the conclusion?

Been driving for last 35 years. Every newer car is crappier in every possible way - comfort, speed, durability, quality, reliability.

It's not some subjective observations - some 40-50 years ago automakers were accomodating customers, now they accommodate numerous limitations imposed by governments to make it "safer". And I am not even touching engine limitations thanks to which we have weak motors which roar like boeing at 5k rpm but still doesn't help to move car forward.

Cars made in 70-80s easily work for 40 years, if managed properly and made by nissan, mercedes-benz, toyota and sorts. Good luck modern garbage to live slightly longer than warranty without majour issues.

Re: Generation Junk

#342

Post by AussieWog93 »

mikrotikker wrote: post #336
AussieWog93 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I suspect has tipped the scales in favour of less repairable products is the massive decline in social capital. 30-40 years ago, if your lawnmower broke down you'd ask Dave from two doors down to come and have a look at it. Now, you'd either take it to a professional repairman (and get it back 2 weeks and $100+ later), try to work it out yourself via online tutorials, or just throw it in the bin. Either way…

What's responsible for that decline in social capital do you think?

Personally, I have no idea, and don't think you could even pinpoint a single cause.

There's a book that goes over it called Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam, but that is two decades old now and clearly didn't capture everything.

Re: Generation Junk

#343

Post by Klathmon »

jesterson wrote: post #341
woopwoop wrote: post #12

So this article implies that a number of things that we buy previously were built to last longer, and indeed did last longer. The first few examples are kitchen appliances. In this case I don't really know, but I'm at least willing to listen. Ultimately the evidence is people responding to a thread on Twitter where he solicited complaints. Not so compelling. But then he mentions a "hybrid sedan". Here I'm aware of th…

> Modern cars are much, much more reliable and durable than ones built at any time in the past May I know the timeframe and your experience on which you base the conclusion? Been driving for last 35 years. Every newer car is crappier in every possible way - comfort, speed, durability, quality, reliability. It's not some subjective observations - some 40-50 years ago automakers were accomodating customers, now they ac…

> limitations imposed by governments to make it "safer".

You have scare quotes there for some reason, but by pretty much all accounts cars now are so much safer than before. Like to an insane amount, over a 50% reduction in chance of fatality since the 70s/80s.

> we have weak motors which roar like boeing at 5k rpm but still doesn't help to move car forward.

And again it's working. Efficiency has increased even more than safety, with new cars getting over double the fuel economy even accounting for the larger cars!

Re: Generation Junk

#344

Post by makingstuffs »

ghusto wrote: post #276
woopwoop wrote: post #12

So this article implies that a number of things that we buy previously were built to last longer, and indeed did last longer. The first few examples are kitchen appliances. In this case I don't really know, but I'm at least willing to listen. Ultimately the evidence is people responding to a thread on Twitter where he solicited complaints. Not so compelling. But then he mentions a "hybrid sedan". Here I'm aware of th…

> Modern cars are much, much more reliable and durable than ones built at any time in the past. I continue to buy older cars because this has been false for me everywhere I've experienced new cars (borrowed, friends, my own). Pointing out lack of data to support an argument that relies on anecdotal evidence is good practice. However: - The anecdotal evidence is strong amongst older people - Data not existing doesn't…

I think there is some truth and reasoning to your point and there is a missed point also: peoples’ desire/ability to repair broken modern appliances.

An example of this is my mother’s cooker. She has had it for 15 years now and it is still going strong/only cost £300 when bought new.

The main reason for this is the simple fact I’ve gone and repaired it when something on other failed. One repair was a power box — cost me £15 and 30 minutes.

Two other repairs were heating filaments (one for the main oven, one for a job). If I remember correctly the total cost of the filaments was roughly £75.

This is one example but I can think of many others where I have repaired appliances for friends and family when their initial reaction was “it’s broke, nothing lasts now, I need to buy a new X”.

Re: Generation Junk

#345

Post by tonyedgecombe »

hooby wrote: post #225

My grand parents live in an old farm-house, 100 years old or more. When that house was built - there was no electricity. That had been added later - and you could still see where channels had been hewn into the wall to put in cables and later plastered over again. But everything electrical in that house was repairable to a degree that seems unimaginable today. For example, every single power plug had screws. If you r…

At least in the UK, appliances have to ship with a moulded plug, manufacturers aren't allowed to supply anything else. Personally I've never had one fail but I have had traditional screw together plugs fall apart.

Re: Generation Junk

#346

Post by mlrtime »

ghusto wrote: post #290
bouk wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the old cars you can still buy now are the reliable ones, because the unreliable ones have long been scrapped

That, is an excellent point. However, the very reason I buy in them in the first place is that they proved themselves to me _at the time_. Believe it or not, what I'm saying is I never had a bad experience with cars from the 90s, in the 90s.

You never owned a 90s Chrysler product I'm taking it? Absolute complete garbage.

Re: Generation Junk

#347

Post by tester756 »

ghusto wrote: post #276
woopwoop wrote: post #12

So this article implies that a number of things that we buy previously were built to last longer, and indeed did last longer. The first few examples are kitchen appliances. In this case I don't really know, but I'm at least willing to listen. Ultimately the evidence is people responding to a thread on Twitter where he solicited complaints. Not so compelling. But then he mentions a "hybrid sedan". Here I'm aware of th…

> Modern cars are much, much more reliable and durable than ones built at any time in the past. I continue to buy older cars because this has been false for me everywhere I've experienced new cars (borrowed, friends, my own). Pointing out lack of data to support an argument that relies on anecdotal evidence is good practice. However: - The anecdotal evidence is strong amongst older people - Data not existing doesn't…

>Forget that, is there anything you've bought new in the last _ten_ years that you still have?

GPU

Re: Generation Junk

#348

Post by tonyedgecombe »

denton-scratch wrote: post #331
hooby wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the sockets - I'm talking of the plugs that you put into the sockets. I haven't seen a plug with screws in ages. They all are a single molded piece now, aren't they? See: https://www.kulthifi.de/WebRoot/Store19/Shops/80012341/5E84/... for example.

I think there are regulations requiring that new products with mains plugs must have them moulded on. I think it's a safety thing; users tend to fit plugs incorrectly, causing fires. I think it's regrettable; the correct remedy would have been to teach kids how to wire a plug correctly. Oh well.

We were taught that in school. I remember it well because we were given a short piece of cable and plug to do it ourselves. Sadly the idiot next to me plugged his in and switched it on whilst the other end of the cable was shorted out.

Turns out it's much easier to fix the plug than fix people.

Re: Generation Junk

#349

Post by tonyedgecombe »

hooby wrote: post #323
CaptainZapp wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they usually are. But you can - if you're so inclined - buy plugs with screws and replace the molded ones by cutting the cable.

And the cut off molded ones still end up in a landfill. And that's my point - in my granddads time, all devices came with plugs that could be repaired and re-used (and my granddad never threw them away) - and today, all devices come with plugs that can only be cut off and thrown away. I fully believe that the molded ones are actually both cheaper AND more durable (will last longer without needing repair). But they ar…

I cut them off at the other end. I replaced the cable and plug on a mixer fairly recently.

Re: Generation Junk

#350

Post by tonyedgecombe »

theshrike79 wrote: post #316
drcode wrote: post #4

I feel arguments like this always ignore the fact that buying a toaster in 1950 was a major investment for a family, and if you want to spend $2000 on a high-end toaster in 2023, which is probably equivalent in inflation-adjusted price to the 1950s toaster, it will probably also be very nice.

I'm _literally_ just looking for a toaster that'll outlast me and found Dualit: https://www.dualit.com/products/2-slice-newgen Hand made in the UK, fully mechanical and you can get spare parts for it. There's very little that can fail, it doesn't have a spring that brings the toast up, you need to push the lever yourself. Even the timer is fully mechanical.

>Hand made in the UK, fully mechanical and you can get spare parts for it.

They only sell spares for the higher end models. We have a basic Dualit toaster which you can't get spares for (although it has been reliable so far).

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