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Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

whitehouse.gov

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Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#341

Post by scoofy »

theptip wrote: post #331
scoofy wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can call for both legalization and high regulation… that’s literally what prescription drugs are.

Legalization & certification of quality is a good endpoint, if you can buy cheap heroin of good purity and stable dosage, no need for underground sources laced with fentanyl of variable purity. I’m here for the FDA regulating what is on the label matching what is in the pill. But there is so an argument for optional certification; it might end up that the steady state cost for FDA compliance leaves room at the bottom…

My point is that we effectively did this for a couple decades with oxycodone and hydrocodone… the result has been disastrous.

We can probably keep more existing addicts alive by full legalization, but we pretty much invite a huge wave of new folks who will spend the rest of their lives with an opiate dependency.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#342

Post by theptip »

scoofy wrote: post #341
theptip wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legalization & certification of quality is a good endpoint, if you can buy cheap heroin of good purity and stable dosage, no need for underground sources laced with fentanyl of variable purity. I’m here for the FDA regulating what is on the label matching what is in the pill. But there is so an argument for optional certification; it might end up that the steady state cost for FDA compliance leaves room at the bottom…

My point is that we effectively did this for a couple decades with oxycodone and hydrocodone… the result has been disastrous. We can probably keep more existing addicts alive by full legalization, but we pretty much invite a huge wave of new folks who will spend the rest of their lives with an opiate dependency.

As a sibling noted, I think the takeaway from oxy is a lot more complex. I don’t think many people are dying from prescription meds, I think most are dying when they go to the black market to service their addiction when they cannot get prescriptions, or cannot afford them.

For example if you want oxy, it’s very expensive on the black market, and so many end up taking fentanyl instead, which is more dangerous even if you have known purity medical grade, and is extremely dangerous when purchased on the black market with variable and unknown purity.

So in summary, I really strongly disagree that “we effectively did this”. The decriminalization program has not been seriously tried for opiates anywhere outside Portugal (where it didn’t cause an increase in usage, and did result in decreased harm).

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#343

Post by ZoomerCretin »

tessierashpool wrote: post #325
ZoomerCretin wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Measured by annual average alcohol consumption in the US before and after prohibition, the 21st amendment was a huge success. I think temporary society-scale prohibition when drug use becomes a widespread societal ill is good policy. Afterward, individual mandatory punishment/rehab for those who abuse drugs/alcohol and harm themselves and others should be the norm.

> I think temporary society-scale prohibition when drug use becomes a widespread societal ill is good policy. OK, but we passed a constitutional amendment saying the opposite, and the so-called "War on Drugs" operates in defiance of the spirit of that amendment.

>OK, but we passed a constitutional amendment saying the opposite

Which amendment is that? The 21st repealing prohibition did not make any value statements on whether prohibition was ever good policy, it merely repeals the amendment banning alcohol.

> and the so-called "War on Drugs" operates in defiance of the spirit of that amendment.

There is no "spirit of [the] amendment". It repealed a ban on alcohol. Alcohol was undeniably an extreme social ill before prohibition.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#344

Post by giarc »

pseudalopex wrote: post #43
giarc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why not just pardon everyone who was convicted? The argument I've heard is that many with simple possession on their record may have actually pleaded down from a different crime, and that needs to be taken into consideration.

> The argument I've heard is that many with simple possession on their record may have actually pleaded down from a different crime, and that needs to be taken into consideration. How is this related to nationality or residence?

Ya I took a leap from original question, but I was just pointing out how it's hard to just blanket pardon people.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#345

Post by fyrn_ »

al_borland wrote: post #209
fyrn_ wrote: post #167

This pardon applies only to federal possession and use sentences, still a nice gesture, but it's a small percentage of convictions as federal prosecution of these charges is rare. More important for it's symbolic effects then for the actual direct results

I don’t get how there can be a blanket pardon on the books for federal crimes, while still being illegal at a federal level. The pardon should have come along with legalization, and putting it on the same level as alcohol. The current situation feels ridiculous.

This pardon applies to convictions that existed at the time of the pardon, it's not automatically applied to future convictions. This power comes from the presidential right to pardon, it's not the ability to disable a law while they are in office. In theory it could be used for that, however the president would have to pardon each time.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#346

Post by benlivengood »

nailer wrote: post #318
benlivengood wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the discretion of both law enforcement officers and prosecutors.

Do you have evidence that cannabis laws were enforced disproportionately?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK425763/ with 10% v.s. 8% use, 4x arrest rate for black folks: https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/racial-disparity-in-...

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#347

Post by rabbits_2002 »

this is all just for show until they legalize it. Biden has been on record saying he wont, and there are very, very few federal convictions. I don’t know why the government is so hell-bent on arresting teenagers and giving free money to cartels.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#348

Post by nailer »

tessierashpool wrote: post #324
nailer wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have evidence that cannabis laws were enforced disproportionately?

sure, let me spend my Saturday going on Google for you, to find the overwhelming evidence that has been gathered for the past several decades, which you somehow missed. or claim to have missed.

We know that the US police are more likely to shoot white people than black people based on the FBI data, so it’s not unreasonable to think this may also be an urban legend

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#349

Post by nailer »

benlivengood wrote: post #346
nailer wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have evidence that cannabis laws were enforced disproportionately?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK425763/ with 10% v.s. 8% use, 4x arrest rate for black folks: https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/racial-disparity-in-...

It would be interesting to see if there were other offences being committed or where possession was the sole offence.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#350

Post by tcmart14 »

elcritch wrote: post #301
tcmart14 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess would be that by the president pardoning these crimes, it would potentially make it more acceptable for governors to do the same for state level crimes. However, it still doesn't solve the overarching issue of draconian drug laws.

Especially ironic since Biden was one of the original architects of those draconian laws.

Ia that really ironic though? If anything, it should be something we value. Granted, this was much later than would have been liked, like decades later. But a politician going, "oh, wait, that policy I helped passed turned out to have bad side effects. I see it now, recognize it and will do something about it." We have too many politicians who pass bad policy, and better yet pass it, watch it blow up in their faces and move on with their life to never revisit again. Chances are, most to all politicians are at some point going to pass bad policy, the important part is, recognizing when things go off the rails and correcting course.
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