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Why do people still use VBA?

sancarn.github.io

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Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#341

I've been in manufacturing for ~13 years across 5 different organizations. There'll inevitably come up a spreadsheet use case where you'll have to execute a well defined series of steps on a recurring basis (and some of these steps may not be possible using the built-in functionality alone). Which is where VBA comes in. I've sometimes wondered what I would do in the absence of VBA and come to the conclusion that a) I…

More like: Obtaining a japanese chef's knife, getting a permit to carry it and forbid your friends to use it.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#342

I've been surprised to see many pro devs using Excel/VBA as a secondary tool. One example: a couple years ago I was working with a big hedge fund and one of their data analysts sent me an Excel model he had built and I was tickled to see the .xlsm extension (i.e., VBA code on board). "Ahh ha", I thought, "Let's see what these macro-recording cowboys have been up to." There was a lot of VBA inside, all written by this…

As I have gained experience as a developer using the right tool for the right job becomes paramount. And the lazy answer can be much better than some incomprehensible mess of ideas.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#343
post #315
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IT Security and Administrative policy in non-technology companies trends towards restriction and justification rather than permissiveness. I work in a tech company and the IT department is like that. The worst part is that IT/security is separate from the operational branch, and they don't care if it impacts our projects. Even though we are the same company, it seems they only care about their own profits (we get b…

I'm trying to explain to our IT that we need to match our customers expectations on how to interface with them, not the other way around, that has so far, either fallen on deaf ears or not made it to the correct person. I have a ticket open about MX Resolution failures on outbound email to a certain subset of customers - IT keeps blaming unspecified configuration errors on the customer side, not a misconfiguration in…

> I'm trying to explain to our IT that we need to match our customers expectations on how to interface with them, not the other way around

That's exactly the problem.

Here is a personal anecdote.

Our customer wanted us to setup a development/test machine. Because the software had some real-time constraints, we had to use a CPU with enough physical cores and a customized Linux distribution, accessible through SSH with a remote desktop, it didn't need direct access to neither our corporate network nor the customer network. Essentially, what we needed was a computer with an internet connection and root access for at least one member of the team.

So we setup to talk with the customer to decide on the various requirements. We forwarded them to our an IT security department, and they essentially replied with "this is not a standard configuration, do it yourself". I ended up making the plan myself, had it checked with some guy at the IT security that happened to be cooperative and after a few back-and-forth on some details to make sure it was fine, I started to set up the server. At the same time, my manager made sure we had a spot to put the computer in the server room, all good. We essentially did it all by ourselves, and the customer was ok, I wouldn't say "happy" because all these exchanges with IT security took way too much time. All that was needed was for the IT guy to plug in the machine and configure the network.

Then it went downhill. They first stated that they couldn't let us have our own computers in the server room, only VMs. It was not only completely inadequate due to the real-time requirements, but the price was absurdly high, like hundreds of euros a month. Plus, it is not what they told us earlier.

So, we insisted. They then sent us someone who was probably an architect of some kind and started to suggest some ridiculously complex architectures with a dedicated router, firewalls, etc... when all we really needed was an internet connection with no special privileges (something the customer has already agreed with). Not only it would have cost thousands just for the study, and who knows how much for the actual setup and maintenance, but it came with annoying restrictions.

In the end, we told the customer we couldn't do it, so they did it themselves and we did the dev and tests we had to do on the customer machine. Needless to say, the customer didn't really appreciate the whole affair, and we got dumped.

What we probably should have done, and I have seen it many times is to get a regular consumer-grade DSL/fiber plan just to work around the IT department.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#344
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth also pointing out that sometimes when you're in a corporate dystopian hell hole do not expect to be able to actually request or install software on your device. What is there is what you have and trying to get it changed is an exercise in taking on the bureaucracy. It's not worth it. Many people have tried and failed. Back in the dark ages, we had a horrible reporting engine in Word VBA that pulled report defin…

I suspect that dystopian environments of locked-down mandatory corporate Windows laptops with no software installation privileges, firewalled networking and even the USB ports disabled are also part of the reason for every function being crammed into the browser to the point that the browser has become an operating system host... Creativity (and catastrophes) happens where there is freedom: local scripting and browse…

Yeah in the early 2000s Java was supposed to be the universal platform of write once run everywhere. And then every IT department locked Java out, so we said fuck it and wrote everything in PHP.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The usual suspects? Lack of version control? Hard to deploy (reproducibly)?

Yes and yes. But the larger and more fundamental problems are the mixing of the program logic and the state and inability to make the code composable or modular. Problems in version control and deployment/reproducibility almost necessarily follow from these. These are probably not impossible to solve for notebook-style, but there are not many efforts to solve them or they are not even acknowledged as problems. Edit:…

Thanks. Agreed.

By "stateless", I'm assuming you mean functional programming paradigms of immutable, idpotent, and no side effects.

FWIW, for build pipelines, my quarter-baked notion is to use ZFS snapshots (or equiv).

I'll check out Pluto for Julia.

As you know, state is a challenge for "serverless" too.

I've been reacquainting w/ RDBMS tools. There are a few new strategies (implementions) for change tracking. Back in the day, we just banged the rocks together (ook, ook), so I'm very eager to learn the new hotness.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can find bad examples of how things work in basically every department I chose if I look long enough. Are there IT-Managed things that border on insanity? Oh yes. Are these a good excuse to build a shadow IT? No, they are not. Don't get me wrong: I'm not bothered at all when a couple analysts get together and hack away at their own little tools in VBA. Kudos to them for getting into the spirit of things, and maybe…

What bothers me as practically 100% shadow IT worker (to the point of buying my own devices and internet connections with my own money) is that IT-departments don't care about the users, usability or productivity almost at all (and security people are especially bad at this). And that a lot of IT people frankly don't understand IT very much. Without shadowing it, I couldn't get anything done. I have to install new (o…

> IT forces me to use OneDrive that often simply doesn't work.

Also happens to me. OneDrive sucks. It can't even generate proper zip files. Any zip files over 2GB or so I download from it shows as corrupted when I try to extract under linux. IIRC is because OneDrive puts some invalid flags in the files.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security is the non-negotiable. If they want to play with whatever tech tools to get their job done, have at it. They can ask for help when they really need it. But if they are taking short cuts with the security of the data, that needs to be cracked down on immediately, as they are putting the entire company in jeopardy.

If security is non-negotiable, the only solution is to destroy the data so that it can't be ever recovered by anybody. Or even better not having any data in the first place. Securing some data is very important. Some data indeed shouldn't exist in the first place. But for a lot of data it matters very little. Most security breaches have rather mild consequences. Treating all data as megatopsecret and all security bre…

Well, I work for a company that processes Private Health Information, so a breach is a potential existential threat.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#348
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get it, "record macro" is the key to this. MS could switch them to C# or JS or python or whatever, if they just added a button which did that.

This is the interesting thing. I haven't played with it myself but seems MS is trying that with their new Beta python script function, but their implementation is just crazy, completely handicapped. Can't see it being a true replacement for VBA in excel.

I think proper Python macros is one thing LibreOffice could have implemented years ago, to help attract people and break MS near monopoly on spreadsheets. It exists today, but last time I tried felt very hacky. There was no proper macro editor for it, IIRC you had to extract spreadsheets as if they were zip files and save .py written elsewhere in directories inside. Very cumbersome.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#349
> Why do people use VBA?

Good article.

What it doesn't mention is the versatility and value the combination of VBA and the various MS Office applications brings to the table for small and medium businesses.

Translation: VBA, as a tools for SMB's, can make them money.

VBA is often discusses in terms of Excel. However, it is available --and very useful-- across the entire MS Office suite.

Over the years we have used VBA for applications ranging from engineering to business. From automated code generation (generate Verilog FPGA code based on easy-to-maintain data entered into Excel) to financial analysis and projections (example, Bass Diffusion Model product evaluation).

One of the most fun applications I remember was using VBA to create a training application for dealers and customers using PowerPoint. We created a full simulation of this device (control panel with buttons and an LCD display), using VBA to run the show. This was super easy to distribute to our dealers, required no installation and everyone could run it. Of course, today it would make more sense to build such a thing as a web app.

Still, VBA makes such things accessible to lots of people. You can use it with Excel, Word, Access, PowerPoint, etc. As a tool, it is useful and convenient. Most people could not care less about the, often pedantic, opinion us engineering types can have about such things.

As a software engineer I wish something like Python was a first-class citizen across the MS Office suite. I know they are slowly making this happen. I haven't looked into it for a while. It seems MS wants you to have a subscription to Office 360, which is a nonstarter as far as I am concerned. I could be wrong.

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