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Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

especiales.eldiario.es

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Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#341

Post by siquick »

bluGill wrote: post #136

I don't have a large enough sample to make a statement, but my impression is apartments in Spain are larger than in the US. Even if you want to live in an apartment, if you want more space you are forced to buy a house. You can't get a 4 bedroom apartment (3 kids? separate office? hobby room?...) You can't get an apartment with two "living rooms" (music room, tv room, rec room...). You don't need any of that, but if…

One of the major problems with apartment living here in Sydney (or Melbourne) is the lack of 3 bedroom apartments - there just isn’t any. So once you have a family you either stay in a 2 bedroom (most of which are pretty small) or move miles out to the outer suburbs which have zero amenities and commute for over an hour each way.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#342

Post by mixmastamyk »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #77

I find the ideal building height to be up to 6 floors at most - anything more makes the streets start to feel a bit too claustrophobic and the area less "neighborly".

Believe this is called the "missing middle." AKA, low-rise apartment buildings.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#343

Post by Mawr »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #130
Mawr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Ebikes let you cover great distances with little effort. - You can have someone ride on the backseat or in the cargo space of a cargo bike. [1] - You'd be hard pressed to come up with a shopping load that won't fit on a cargo bike. [1] Then there's the cost vs a car [2], which will likely make up for any inconvenience. Of course, you do need at least decent bike infrastructure for this to be realistic. [1]: https:/…

Imo, you are no longer talking about cycling once you're talking about ebikes and other motorized vehicles. You're talking about convincing people to buy worse cars. Motorbikes and mopeds and scooters already exist and people largely don't choose them over cars. Changing it to "electric scooter" or ebike doesn't suddenly make it more appealing. And you certainly lose the "it's better for physical fitness and health"…

This depends on legislation, but in a lot of countries ebikes that don't require pedaling are illegal. From personal experience, riding on an ebike still provides plenty of exercise, certainly more than the literally zero that you get when driving.

In any case, I only brought up ebikes in the context of arduous journeys. Most people will not travel by ebike, they're too expensive.

It's not about trying to persuade people in car-dependent places to go against the grain and bike everywhere. Rather, a network of bike infrastructure should be built, making biking a viable choice. In time biking would become normalized, nobody would need to be explicitly persuaded. After all, Americans don't drive everywhere because they've been convinced to, they do it because the ever-present car infrastructure makes it the most convenient option.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#344

Post by Mawr »

bluGill wrote: post #128
Mawr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Ebikes let you cover great distances with little effort. - You can have someone ride on the backseat or in the cargo space of a cargo bike. [1] - You'd be hard pressed to come up with a shopping load that won't fit on a cargo bike. [1] Then there's the cost vs a car [2], which will likely make up for any inconvenience. Of course, you do need at least decent bike infrastructure for this to be realistic. [1]: https:/…

My car is a lot less effort that my ebike. And the car is faster as well. I ride my ebike for the trips too long for the acoustic bike, but there are still a lot of trips not in reasonable ebike range that I make.

Sounds great, that's pretty much the goal - limiting car trips to the ones that actually require a car.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#345

Post by xhkkffbf »

spaintech wrote: post #73

What a fantastic site! Wish more titea were build this way. It was an awesome experience! I’m an outsider living in Spain for the last 22 years, I think that while the content portrays a reality of the high rise movement in Spain, there is an angle that was missed. It is important to say that the at time draconian land laws pay an important role in the urban landscape. Not to mention that Spain relative young democra…

Anyone know more information about how this was built?

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#346

Post by andyferris »

Great website.

I lived in Spain for 2.5 years. I have to say, the appartment life there was fantastic. I'm back home living in the 'burbs and I still miss the "15 minute city" keenly.

I know the status-quo in Spain, but the history presented here is kinda fascinating. I keep forgetting how dynamic these things are. Also... is anyone else shocked how little development there is currently? Maybe this is just because it doesn't have e.g. 2010-2023 numbers (the downturn _was_ extremely brutal) but I thought the development sector had rebounded at least somewhat.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#347

Post by KptMarchewa »

bluGill wrote: post #122
jack_riminton wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having stayed in Norwegian houses many times, I can attest they've really sorted their insulation out. Similarily my Swedish sister-in-law always complains about British houses when she visits, saying their cold and draughty

British houses have a worldwide reputation of bad insulation. They live in a mild climate where you don't need to heat the entire house to ensure the pipes don't freeze, and don't really need much AC to be livable in the summer. As such it is really common for people who live there to only heat the room they are in.

British construction has bad reputation in general. They put carpets in the toilets.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#348

Post by causality0 »

pantulis wrote: post #5

Spaniard here, I expected to see an infographic basically based around Madrid and Barcelona but it seems that special care has been taken to cover the whole country, kudos to El Diario team.

Always interesting to me that the Spanish get a special demonym. I am American and also an American, but a Spanish person is a Spaniard.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#349

Post by globular-toast »

Tade0 wrote: post #194
globular-toast wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too. What's annoying is it seems hard to tell what it's going to be like before you actually move in. I've lived in a few different flats in the UK, all purpose built flats. I already knew flats in converted houses are generally terrible. I've been in some where you can hear everything your neighbour is up to. I'm not sure what's worse: hearing them or knowing they can hear you too. In two of them I could never he…

> And this is despite the building having solid concrete floors that appear to be over a foot thick. The noise is coming in through the holes made to put plumbing - especially district heating. In my current apartment the owner wanted to conceal the piping, so he hid it behind an enclosure made out of plaster with a service hatch. The whole thing is currently a resonance chamber that lets me follow my dowstairs neigh…

This is my theory with respect to hearing voices from downstairs. It only takes the tiniest little air gap to make a huge difference and I can tell there is one somewhere.

I'm not sure about the problem with direct contact with walls/ceilings, though. I suspect this is more down to the construction and the walls/ceiling being directly attached to the concrete shell, or something.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#350

Post by pvaldes »

outside1234 wrote: post #74
bedobi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

was gonna comment the same :melting face: I'm an armchair urbanist and all about density, and in well built buildings it's fine, even with tiled floors you can't really hear your neighbors but in Spain it's as if the buildings are built with zero soundproofing - you hear every single neighbor in the whole building and their tvs, radios, conversations, footsteps... it's maddening, I don't understand it

The Spanish love the noise is my theory. They are a very social people. They probably think of it as comforting versus annoying, and like the person that lives next to the waterfall that can't hear it, it probably fades into the background of their consciousness. (I lived in Spain for two years.)

Each American men bears a hat with mouse ears and every American woman is dressed as Cinderella. They hear Disney music all the time while letting children to take selfies with them. Is a very strange place.

Or maybe I have a very stereotyped, very local experience that came from going mostly where all the other tourists go. and I'm wildly extrapolating from here about the rest of the country.

Maybe the older houses are the only available places to rent in some cities when you are young, because they are old and creaky, so still affordable. Does this mean that every Spanish family live in old, poorly insulated houses? Hem, not.

Is true that Mediterranean coast and Canary Islands care less about proper insulation. The north and center is different.

Is Madrid louder than London, Athens, new Dehli, Los Angeles or Pekin? I'm very skeptical about it.

It just happens that big cities, sport events, drinking areas and heavy traffic streets are noisy places. Here and in Australia. If you go where the drunkards join; expect to meet a lot of drunkards. But now visit any small village in Castilla; most of the time you could hear an atom crashing against the soil.

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