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Free IRS-run tax filing pilot to be available in 13 states

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Re: Free IRS-run tax filing pilot to be available in 13 states

#341

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

singron wrote: post #331
extraduder_ire wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the URL is freefilefillableforms.com (note the "file", the "FreeFillableForms" domain is parked by someone) based on some light googling and a contact email I saw on the irs.gov site. Glad a digital equivalent to paper forms exists, the US tax code is far less hellish than I previously believed.

The actual tax code is still hellish. Physically filling out the forms is the easiest part. Figuring out what to put in the forms is all the effort. Each page of form usually has many pages of instructions, which are long and complicated because the tax code is long and complicated. If you are a typical tech employee and have highish income, incentive stock options, interest, dividends, capital gains, etc. don't thin…

I'm a self-employed highish income person, no stock options (that was long, long ago), interest, dividends, capital gains, rental property income, a spouse who also has to file schedule C twice.

Takes me about 2 hours on ffff ....

.. mostly because I've done my own taxes for the whole 34 years I've lived in the USA (including the first year when I got the US government to pay me the excess of what I'd paid the UK government, and the year I paid taxes on amzn stock that exceeded everything I had ever earned until that time).

This stuff is not as complicated as people make out, though I would concede that it is likely easier for a software developer-type person than a personal grooming specialist or firefighter. There's a whole industry out there predicated on the idea that you can't do this yourself.

Re: Free IRS-run tax filing pilot to be available in 13 states

#342

Post by sys_64738 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #326
sys_64738 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tory government introduced this filing BS in Britain a while back. You never used to have to file anything with the Inland Revenue before the Tories.

Can you cite this? I thought you just have to file if you make over a certain amount, or you have a setup that requires filing (e.g. you rent part of your house out, or you're a sole trader).

What the heck do you mean can I cite it??? I LIVED there so I don't need to cite anything.

Re: Free IRS-run tax filing pilot to be available in 13 states

#343

Post by dpifke »

sdfghswe wrote: post #325
dpifke wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Beancount, I use metadata tags in my chart of accounts for the tax form and line number, e.g. 2017-01-01 open Expenses:GA:Insurance USD tax_form: "1040 Schedule C" tax_line: "15" tax_description: "Insurance (other than health)" I can then report my transactions based on the tax_form and tax_line attribute, which gets me much of the way there. I still have to do the math on derived lines on the forms, but this at…

I don't supposed you're also familiar with GnuCash and can compare and contrast? I've been using GnuCash for a couple of years. I like that it's free software and I control it, and I like that it stores its state in text files (XML?). That said, there's some annoyances. It's difficult to automate anything (e.g. all transactions that have a string X, should go into account Y). Also I don't think it supports labels (??…

For me, the beauty of Beancount[0] is that it's just text files in Git. There's a web UI I use for generating reports, and a Python API with which I hacked together some import/export scripts, but 99% of my interactions with it are via Emacs[1] and Magit. GnuCash may use XML to store its data, but I'm pretty sure it's not designed around editing those XML files directly.

A ton of repetitive bookkeeping tasks become so much easier when you can copy and paste, or use keyboard macros or something like multiple-cursors[2], rather than have to click tens or hundreds of times in a GUI. Many years ago I used QuickBooks, and basic tasks like importing a bank statement took at least an order of magnitude longer than they do now.

Having my company's books in Git is also huge when it comes to auditing, concurrency, backups, and figuring out where things went wrong when accounts don't balance. As mentioned in another comment: `git diff` is a really powerful tool and it's awesome to be able to check out the books as they existed at a particular point in time. `git blame` is great for when you're trying to figure out where a number came from. Writing meaningful commit messages and comments keeps me sane when I try to remember a year later why something is recorded the way it is.

The biggest downside—or advantage, depending on how you look at it—is that there's no default or built-in chart of accounts, so you need a certain level of accounting acumen (or professional advice) to set things up at first. I'm pretty sure GnuCash aims to be plug-and-play, whereas Beancount is more akin to a programming library that you use to build an accounting system. I agree with the grandparent commenter, who said that text-based accounting is "the best and most flexible accounting experience I've ever had." But the cost of that flexibility is that there's a fair amount of DIY involved.

[0]: https://beancount.io/

[1]: https://github.com/beancount/beancount-mode

[2]: https://github.com/magnars/multiple-cursors.el

Re: Free IRS-run tax filing pilot to be available in 13 states

#344

Post by refurb »

elktown wrote: post #327
refurb wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy thing to say when you’re rich. In my case it was $900 difference. I guess I’m not making those fat tech dollars like you where $900 extra is “close enough”. Must be nice. But try and remember not every is rich like you. $900 is the difference between paying rent and being homeless for a lot of people.

90% of people in my country means that obviously not all are rich.

Then try and have some sympathy for people less off than you.

Re: Free IRS-run tax filing pilot to be available in 13 states

#345

Post by RIMR »

l33t7332273 wrote: post #271
RIMR wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://billmoyers.com/story/how-lobbying-by-tax-preparer-he...

None of that examples support the thesis that tax preparation companies are responsible for making the tax code more complicated.

Knowing that the economy is only going to get larger and more complex, how is the constant lobbying to keep the system inefficient not making it more complicated?

Did you have a specific counter-argument, or just thought-termination?

Re: Free IRS-run tax filing pilot to be available in 13 states

#346

Post by gwbas1c »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #312
Freedom2 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (And it's so damn complicated that it's worth paying someone to do it, unless you were the kid who did the math textbook for fun.) The vast majority of taxes that are filed by US taxpayers are simple. Unless you're extrapolating your own experience to everyone else, that is.

The vast majority of taxes that are filed by US taxpayers are simple. I assume you meant "tax returns" (instead of taxes). Have you ever paid income tax in another country (other than the US)? Many highly advanced countries do not require a tax return as long you are a regular salaried employee who makes less than X (usually a pretty large number). Even interest paid from a bank account or capital gains from securiti…

> Have you ever paid income tax in another country (other than the US)?

No, but I do know that it's much simpler. We (the US) seem to have a "not invented here" syndrome towards learning from how other countries improve over our system.

> It is crazy how much work you need to do in the US ... even for a "simple" filing.

The old rumor is that drug dealers and gangsters get convicted for tax evasion.

Re: Free IRS-run tax filing pilot to be available in 13 states

#347

Post by lr4444lr »

gamblor956 wrote: post #336
lr4444lr wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did include both, but we either had to make an account under one of our names, or the check had a name that didn't match on another spot (it was quite a while ago). Despite the IRS having our filing records, they couldn't match it to the payment. It's really not a hard problem.

The check doesn't have to match either name , since names are not what the IRS uses to match payments to returns. The check simply has to have the SSN (or ITIN) of at least one of the joint filers. It's really not a hard problem. It's actually an extremely hard problem if you try to match payments by name, since there are a lot of people with the same exact name, many of whom even live in the same state or same city.…

They weren't. The account had the SSN. The payment came under the other SSN. The filing was joint with both of our SSNs through the accountant. The agent I finally got on the phone after days confirmed that the problem was some mismatch between SSNs in the account, check, or filing.

Of course it was cleared up, but the point is that at least one of our SSNs was on everything. That should be a trivially easy for record merging or linking.

Re: Free IRS-run tax filing pilot to be available in 13 states

#348

Post by throwaway2037 »

gwbas1c wrote: post #346
throwaway2037 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of taxes that are filed by US taxpayers are simple. I assume you meant "tax returns" (instead of taxes). Have you ever paid income tax in another country (other than the US)? Many highly advanced countries do not require a tax return as long you are a regular salaried employee who makes less than X (usually a pretty large number). Even interest paid from a bank account or capital gains from securiti…

> Have you ever paid income tax in another country (other than the US)? No, but I do know that it's much simpler. We (the US) seem to have a "not invented here" syndrome towards learning from how other countries improve over our system. > It is crazy how much work you need to do in the US ... even for a "simple" filing. The old rumor is that drug dealers and gangsters get convicted for tax evasion.

    We (the US) seem to have a "not invented here" syndrome towards learning from how other countries improve over our system.
I see this pattern repeat when I speak to people from (physically) large countries: Brazil, Australia, Russia, China, etc. It seems like the larger your country, the most culturally isolated that you become. Small to medium sized countries are more willing to look outside their borders for good ideas.

Re: Free IRS-run tax filing pilot to be available in 13 states

#350

Post by robertlagrant »

sys_64738 wrote: post #342
robertlagrant wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you cite this? I thought you just have to file if you make over a certain amount, or you have a setup that requires filing (e.g. you rent part of your house out, or you're a sole trader).

What the heck do you mean can I cite it??? I LIVED there so I don't need to cite anything.

You cite things to give evidence for other people to check, as opposed to taking your word for it.
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