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The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

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341–350 of 414 posts

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#341
Marc

Thank you for taking the time to so carefully lay out your philosophy on how technology will save humanity. I think it would have been simpler and to the point if you just posted a hand drawn picture with you in Superman costume so people could really understand what a hero you are.

Truly, it is tremendously selfless of you to advance society with your investments designed explicitly to maximize your returns. What a massive coincidence that so much of your investment over the past 5-6 years has been so focused on web3 and crypto - many, many alt coins that you have successfully committed securities fraud with by dumping them on unwitting retail investors who then eat the loss. Progress!

We, the commoners, are so so grateful that you have enlightened us with your incredibly deep take on how the world will advance specifically through technological ideas that all have one thing in common: they all are explicitly designed to line your pockets first and foremost - societal benefits are an afterthought. Oops, I must have gotten that backwards.

At this point in my essay I will quote a philosopher to sound very very deep and contemplative like you - somehow I bet you are a fan of Ayn Rand and objectivism so I'll use her.

In the Atlas Shrugged version of the world, this worldview places you as the modern day John Galt. We are all oh-so-grateful for your ability to save the world by exclusively investing in tech projects that give you massive returns. We are all so grateful that the modern day Galt's Gulch is not a humble valley disconnected from society where honest men work together, but rather a $155 million dollar coastal property in Malibu from which you command your minions. It is literally the most expensive property in all of California. A home befitting the god that you are, reigning on high over all the peasants who don't understand or appreciate your benevolence.

Don't change a thing, don’t listen to anyone who says you have delusions of grandeur. Thank you for saving the world and meagerly only asking for a few billions of dollars and an insane amount of international power and influence in return. You truly are the most selfless and deep philosopher of this age. What a hero.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the capitalist manifesto: why the global free market will save the world pretty crazy they'd put a fallacy in the title of their book

read the book. Overall, since the 1990s total global inequality (inequality across all individuals in the world) declined ... In 1990, 36% of the world's population lived in extreme poverty. By 2019, this number had fallen to 9.2%. It's not a fallacy ... it's reality

And most of that elimination of extreme poverty? In China. Now, I suppose you can consider Dengism capitalism, if you ignore the fact that it's markets and capital under controlled conditions being used to build up industrial capacity for the transition to communism, but hey. Whatever definitions let you sleep at night.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sure it isn’t because they just grew up, like the hippies?

By "grow up" do you mean "coalesce"? If so, that's exactly what I'm saying.

The hippies suited up without expensive housing as a forcing factor. We may agree on what happened, but I disagree with you about why.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#345
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sure it isn’t because they just grew up, like the hippies?

I'd love to be free to hack on interesting things. If I didn't have to spend so much on housing, I'd have more freedom. Of course, there are also tradeoffs in that, in the sense that I do not want to live in Cyanide Springs, Oklahoma just to have cheap housing...

It seems like there is a tendency to become occupied with obligations as you age, regardless of exactly how the discretionary time / money is eaten up.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#346
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to be free to hack on interesting things. If I didn't have to spend so much on housing, I'd have more freedom. Of course, there are also tradeoffs in that, in the sense that I do not want to live in Cyanide Springs, Oklahoma just to have cheap housing...

It seems like there is a tendency to become occupied with obligations as you age, regardless of exactly how the discretionary time / money is eaten up.

Oh, absolutely, but housing eats up the biggest share of most peoples' paychecks.

The higher those costs are, the fewer people can afford to just go do something adventurous, new and interesting.

I mean, think about the staggering amounts of VC money in the bay area that pretty much flows straight to landlords.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#347
post #146

I used to have a similar worldview. I read about the consequences of technological advance in the past always with the present firmly in mind. Who cares if there were initially some unintended consequences and collateral damage? Things got better. Advances in technology have usually increased the size of the pie. It's easy to ignore the bumps in a trendline that's steadly headed skyward. However, when you look more c…

I wouldn't say I "used to" have a similar worldview. In fact I find myself agreeing with most every passage in the manifesto. Agreeing with "yes, but..." - because while we can assert our "belief" in things, when those beliefs are taken for granted while not lining up with actual reality, they form their own oppressive dogma! For example it's quite rich for a VC to make assertions about free markets while simultaneously having drastically altered their investment strategy due to government ending the decade long feeding trough of near-zero interest rates. Hence the general criticism of being out of touch.

Your comment is a good synthesis point. In fact one might say the amount of criticism and nay-saying is directly related to the inequality, either economic or social (dis)enfranchisement of lacking purpose. So pushing in the opposite direction isn't really helping the cause of growth, but rather causing that gulf to widen and the criticism of "techno optimism" to grow.

The fundamental problem I see is making sure governments pass productive laws that encourage computational wealth to remain distributed, as opposed to authoritarian laws that actually cement routine corporate control while reserving ultimate control to the state. The latter approach basically only works with quantifiable monetary wealth, in that the state can collect taxes and then convert them into material welfare. But this approach doesn't work with non-fungible liberty, where the distributed structure must be preserved rather than ever being centralized to begin with. eg GDPR vs TikTok hysteria. Or antitrust enforcement to end this anticompetitive bundling of software, services, and hosting, versus "eliminate sec 230".

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass extermination never occurred in the United States, what are you even talking about? Forced labor, in the 1930s through 1960s? No. Just no. Half of the early U.S. had slavery up til 1865 when a brutal Civil War that cost 600K plus people their lives settled the question. That was all the way back in the 1800s when Russia was still a medieval serfdom indistinguishable from a slave based economy ( https://en.wikipe…

> Mass extermination never occurred in the United States, what are you even talking about? You've made me curious about how the American media describes US history. It's interesting that the mass extermination of Native Americans is referred to as the "Indian Wars". It sounds almost patriotic. > Forced labor, in the 1930s through 1960s? No. Just no. Right. Because with the Indian Citizenship Act, the US magically tra…

Incarceration rates right now in 2023 too. Slavery is outlawed, unless...

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I empathize that it appears the case it's not an optimal allocation, but to say you know it's a misallocation leans overly simplistic. I empathize that it appears the case that the market has some emergent properties that allow it to optimize allocation, but to say you know its an optimal allocation leans overly simplistic. "I think investing in a venture that will do seems like a good idea" may, indeed, have some…

I did not suggest knowing it's optimal either. I'm pointing out The Economy/Market and its mechanisms is a complex system. I urged caution making conclusions from facile knee jerk first order observables when it's the unknown nth order effects we should probably try to identify and characterize first. > just the financial service industry fucking us over. Maybe. But why think you know this? I haven't even tried to qu…

I don't know it in the way that I know about gravity or garbage collection. But I know it in the sense that the end results of this complex system are at best subject to debate as a net win given metrics that include the environment and equitability. A system with the set of pros and cons that the current one demonstrates on a daily basis seems incredibly unlikely to me to be remotely close to optimal.

Now, what does seem true is that it is easy to tell stories about this system that focus on its pros, of which there are many, and thus to construct the overall impression that we should be cautious about changing or discarding it.

In and of itself, that's not a problem. However, combined with the fact stories about the cons are routinely marginalized, discarded as not serious, simply ignored and forth, this is a problem. It leads to a strong bias in favor of the status quo - look at the all the good things we get! we must careful not to lose them! - and an equally strong bias against change attempting to target the much, much less culturally visible cons.

When I see a system that combines externalities, wild inequality of outcome and this sort of builtin restistance to tackling the cons, my facile knee jerk reaction is to assume that it is rigged. More pertinently, even if the alternatives do present various risks, we should be exploring "the neighborhood" with an awareness that we may not even be in a local optimum, let alone a global one.

Re: The Techno-Optimist Manifesto

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rather, they were against an unequal distribution of that technology because it was destroying their community and livelihood, precisely because that technology concentrated power in the hands of the capital class [1] I find discussions about the Luddites online to be deeply illustrative not of the Luddites themselves but of a person's political beliefs. The Luddites did indeed fight for their community and livelih…

> dismantled the subcontinent's dominant position in the market That doesn't happen until after the luddite's first appearance in ~1816 [1] > This created the skilled textile jobs that were eventually mechanized and displaced. No, The displacement is what the Luddites were railing against. Weavers had been highly paid, profitable and skilled occupation from the "dark ages" onwards. Technological advances meant that t…

> That doesn't happen until after the luddite's first appearance in ~1816 [1]

According to Parthasarathi [1], Indian cloth already began having issues from the 1720s as East India Company contracts begun squeezing out local merchants. From the late 1760s, Indian weavers begun having trouble. South Indian weavers reported that in 1779 their incomes had dropped 35% since 1768 (Parthasarathi p. 78-79.) The Luddites first appear in history around 1811, a good 40 years after the beginning of the decline of Indian cloth.

1830 is much too late for the "turning point" as the Cuddalore Weaver's Protest had already occurred by 1778 [2]. I suspect your source comes from before the opening of the East India Company records.

> No, The displacement is what the Luddites were railing against.

Correct, I never disagreed.

> Weavers had been highly paid, profitable and skilled occupation from the "dark ages" onwards.

> The weaver's guilds had a hand in various wars, revolutions and many other social developments between 1100 and at least 1500.

The class consciousness of weavers only appeared from the beginning of industrialization. Weavers guilds operated in different economic and social circumstances with very different economic arrangements than the Luddite-era weavers. Guilds often enjoyed exclusive market privileges and thus had much more pricing power than weavers in the post-feudal era.

> The weavers just weaved, the merchants sourced the raw materials. the concept that the average weaver knew the conditions, circumstance, much less people that produced it is on very shaky ground.

Of course, at that time the flow of information and general levels of education were low. But it's hard to imagine that weavers weren't aware of the prodigy of Indian textiles at the time. Indian exports dominated the textile market until the late 18th century and weavers would have been competing for sales to merchants with Indian exporters. Naturally most weavers would be completely unaware of the contracts and pricing power of the East India Company at the time and its knock-on effects in India. I'm not trying to imply that the Luddites cheered on the EIC in their exploitation, and don't think they did at all unless there's evidence of the contrary.

> I suspect that given that the producers were Christian, much less protestant, would have meant that sympathy would have been limited. Given how xenophobic people were back then.

Europe and the Islamicate world had a lot of mutual animosity and respect for each other at the time. The British viewed Mughal wealth and organization favorably, and this was the basis for the term "mogul" as used in "business mogul". [3] Whether that would lead to sympathy or not is unclear.

> Technological advances meant that they were ruined almost overnight.

Correct but their relative market position came at the expense of the market position of the Mughals. The guild based systems which created guaranteed markets of the middle ages were already long broken by the time of the Luddites. The very ruin from relative riches due to mechanization itself was based on riches based off the ruin of the Mughals. That the Luddites were trying to protect their own lifestyle is neither enigmatic nor evil. The Mughals attempted the same. But instead of trying to cast the Luddites as virtuous heroes, it's important to contextualize them as parties who were protecting a treasure that they had received at another's expense.

[1]: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/transition-to-a-col... The Transition to a Colonial Economy: Weavers, Merchants and Kings in South India, 1720–1800

[3]: Parthasarathi p. 103 and Revolt, Testimony, Petition: Artisanal Protests in Colonial Andhra by Swarnalatha

[3]: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mogul

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